The Official Redbrush/WSSC IDPA Thread

[sbcman]

While I am against earlier start times, with the ease you can set up a classifier course and how long it does take to shoot one, if you couple that with the possibility of the hot weather, an 8:30 or 9:00 start for the classifier might be the way to go. It would need to be heavily advertised to guys aren't surprised when they show up at 10:30 to get registered and it has already started but I think rotating them into the mix would be an easy thing to do.

With the bays as they are currently at WSSC, a classifier match would take a long time. I don't know the solution, but maybe something like having two squads shoot from 8:30-10:30, then two more come in at 11:00-1:00. Don't know how that would work though.

But, one thing I am satisfied about is that the WSSC guys aren't afraid to use their imaginations to find solutions. I've every confidence they can work it out well

 

[DustyDawg48]

With the bays as they are currently at WSSC, a classifier match would take a long time. I don't know the solution, but maybe something like having two squads shoot from 8:30-10:30, then two more come in at 11:00-1:00. Don't know how that would work though.

But, one thing I am satisfied about is that the WSSC guys aren't afraid to use their imaginations to find solutions. I've every confidence they can work it out well

I think by the time they get the berms created they'll have a well of knowledge about a mile deep! I'd like another classifier this year, well 2 actually, since I want a do-over in CDP and then to get an official one in SSP again.

 

[sbcman]

I think by the time they get the berms created they'll have a well of knowledge about a mile deep! I'd like another classifier this year, well 2 actually, since I want a do-over in CDP and then to get an official one in SSP again.

We'd all be wise to get a SSP classifier in soon. Word has it, times a gonna change

 

[DustyDawg48]

We'd all be wise to get a SSP classifier in soon. Word has it, times a gonna change

Really? What have you heard? they looking to make it more difficult to get EX and MA?

 

[sbcman]

Really? What have you heard? they looking to make it more difficult to get EX and MA?

Yep. Word is that a friend of a second cousin heard the barber of a Tiger Team member say that they are looking to drop SSP times down around CDP times.

If such a thing happened, MA and EX times would likely be the ones to drop. A lot of data has shown that there just isn't much difference in the top classes between the divsions and between metal or plastic guns. Especially if the plastic is an M&P

 

[DustyDawg48]

Yep. Word is that a friend of a second cousin heard the barber of a Tiger Team member say that they are looking to drop SSP times down around CDP times.

If such a thing happened, MA and EX times would likely be the ones to drop. A lot of data has shown that there just isn't much difference in the top classes between the divsions and between metal or plastic guns. Especially if the plastic is an M&P

Funny thing is, both classifiers I've shot in CDP would have put me at EX in SSP.

 

[sbcman]

Funny thing is, both classifiers I've shot in CDP would have put me at EX in SSP.

Exactly. I think that's why a drop is being considered. I had my M&P9 for about a month last year and ran it in ESP for classifier. Missed ESP/EX by 2 points and was only 12 short of SSP MA

 

[DustyDawg48]

Exactly. I think that's why a drop is being considered. I had my M&P9 for about a month last year and ran it in ESP for classifier. Missed ESP/EX by 2 points and was only 12 short of SSP MA

I could see the need for that. It is unbelievable that you could shoot a larger caliber gun in a division made of small caliber and have a better classification score.

 

[sbcman]

I could see the need for that. It is unbelievable that you could shoot a larger caliber gun in a division made of small caliber and have a better classification score.

Yeah, I think they originally valued the metal guns too high and the plastic guns too low. Everything we're seeing in IDPA is saying that material doesn't matter. It really does seem to be the indian

 

[DustyDawg48]

It is Gun Snobbery I tell you! Pure discrimination!LOLOL If they are looking to make a change like that it does show that they aren't afraid to say that times have changed and they need to look at the rules and change them accordingly. I know many people want all the striker-fired guns in ESP, any chance of that? I don't think they should but I know that is on a few wish lists. My only issues are a procedural if you drop a loaded mag. That should be at the shooter's discretion and the ratio of shoot to non-threat targets. Should be able to have many more to better represent real-world happenings. Other than that I am a tally pretty good. I'm sure ill think of more but those have been my 2 biggest complaints, although not THAT big lol

 

[sbcman]

It is Gun Snobbery I tell you! Pure discrimination!LOLOL If they are looking to make a change like that it does show that they aren't afraid to say that times have changed and they need to look at the rules and change them accordingly. I know many people want all the striker-fired guns in ESP, any chance of that? I don't think they should but I know that is on a few wish lists. My only issues are a procedural if you drop a loaded mag. That should be at the shooter's discretion and the ratio of shoot to non-threat targets. Should be able to have many more to better represent real-world happenings. Other than that I am a tally pretty good. I'm sure ill think of more but those have been my 2 biggest complaints, although not THAT big lol

The NT to T ratio has been beefed up. I shot a stage in the Summer Sizzler last year that I think had 9 NT and 5 T. The Tiger Teams had approved the stage so I'm sure that will be coming out in the new book. I liked the concept but, of course, it did raise a stink with several there

I don't know how the mag thing will play out. Seems to me that most "tactical" instructors that have never been in a firefight want guys to reload with retention while guys that have been in real firefights say drop the mag and leave it.

I guess the biggest thing for me is reloading. I have no idea what I would do in an actual defensive gunfight, but I'm pretty sure that if my gun emptied out, I'd be reloading right then and there even if it was in the open. I think the concept of getting to cover is based on the idea that folks stop in their tracks to reload, but it is clear that shooters are more than willing to move while doing so. In fact, it seems prudent to me to not only allow moving reloads, but procedural shooters if they STOP in the open to reload.

More than anything else, I want the new book to open a new optic division. Then I could justify getting an M&P CORE

 

[DustyDawg48]

There are a lot of defensive pistol instructions high on the side-arm with an optic. Isn't very much harder to conceal that the same size gun without and it makes a lot of sense. That CORE is awesome looking, too. Saw the Shooting USA snippet about that and I think Jerry is currently rocking one in 3-Gun.

I know they don't want to have a 10-1 Non vs Threat ratio; we aren't supposed to be surgical shooters or taking risks that could endanger more people by attempting a shot that we shouldn't be taking in the first place. But, using NT targets as scenery can help set more of a mood. There needs to be something where you can have any number of non-threats but only so many can be within a certain distance of the threat target.

The retaining of the magazine should be up to the shooter's discretion or be able to be mandated by the individual course of fire, not just some blanket rule that everything has to be retained. I especially don't like it when it is obvious there aren't any rounds in the mag but the slide is forward. That may be a special place for me since that seems to be the one area I've earned the most procedural penalties but if the mag is empty you should be able to drop it and go no matter the condition of the slide.

What is the saying, The situation dictates the tactics or something to that effect? Sometimes you keep the mag and sometimes you can let it go.

 

[Grelber]

http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2013/2/Miculek-SWIN13-1sm.jpg

Hmmm, trigger?

 

[DustyDawg48]

http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2013/2/Miculek-SWIN13-1sm.jpg

Hmmm, trigger?

Very interesting indeed! I saw a video that had a very well known shooter 'round dumping' so he could go to slide-lock reload and nothing was called. In fact when they showed the stage nearly every recognizable shooter doing the same thing Ooops!

 

[Grelber]

If you are Michael Jordan then you must not have committed a foul?

Other thing.
If'n I was going to change an idpa rule, there would be a mandatory stop on ammo or gun malfunction. Flopping unfired ammo on the grass for the lawnmower person and/or shooting that next round and hoping something isn't bad wrong with the gun just doesn't seem like the best way to go.

 

[DustyDawg48]

If you are Michael Jordan then you must not have committed a foul?

Other thing.
If'n I was going to change an idpa rule, there would be a mandatory stop on ammo or gun malfunction. Flopping unfired ammo on the grass for the lawnmower person and/or shooting that next round and hoping something isn't bad wrong with the gun just doesn't seem like the best way to go.

I think that is the rule, the MJ Supah Star clause

Not a bad idea. you know it could get abused by saying you have a malfunction only to be able to reshoot a poorly ran stage. But for safety's sake it might not be a bad thing to make that call as an SO to stop and reset if you think there is something going on other than a bad round or a hard primer.

 

[sbcman]

There are a lot of defensive pistol instructions high on the side-arm with an optic. Isn't very much harder to conceal that the same size gun without and it makes a lot of sense. That CORE is awesome looking, too. Saw the Shooting USA snippet about that and I think Jerry is currently rocking one in 3-Gun.

You should Youtube up his segment on the CORE from Miculek.com. It's magnaported and so forth and he cleans a platerack with it at 50 (yes, 50) yards. I think it kind of surprised him as well

http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2013%2f2%2fMiculek-SWIN13-1sm.jpg

Hmmm, trigger?

Actually it wasn't. I've seen a lot of folks comment on the pic from various places on the interwbz. If you could see a pic looking over his shoulder, you'd know its alright. His target is acquired and being engaged. We all did the same thing.

That was a heck of stage that I should have thought about more carefully. 18 targets requiring 1 round each. For wheelgunners, this is a no brainer- no make up shots. Well, I should have, I think I earned 3 FTNs on that stage by trying to go too fast. And I wasn't the only one

Very interesting indeed! I saw a video that had a very well known shooter 'round dumping' so he could go to slide-lock reload and nothing was called. In fact when they showed the stage nearly every recognizable shooter doing the same thing Ooops!

You talking about the one with Vogel? If so, yeah, it looks bad, but not nearly as bad as the SO who is looking at targets instead of Bob's gun. The tricky thing about "round dumping" calls is that the SO has NO POSSIBLE WAY of knowing the intent of the shooter. I expect that rule will be gone in the next book.

If you are Michael Jordan then you must not have committed a foul?

Other thing.
If'n I was going to change an idpa rule, there would be a mandatory stop on ammo or gun malfunction. Flopping unfired ammo on the grass for the lawnmower person and/or shooting that next round and hoping something isn't bad wrong with the gun just doesn't seem like the best way to go.

I hear where you're coming from and Mike agrees, but this is not a rule that IDPA should make for all. Of the 6 clubs I shoot at regularly, only 3 are grass and need mowed- 2 are rock and 1 is a sawdust type of thing (smart fellers at those clubs). But, I would be fine with local, individual ranges making rules like your suggesting if they are concerned about injury. They can do that now if they wish.

 

[DustyDawg48]

You should Youtube up his segment on the CORE from Miculek.com. It's magnaported and so forth and he cleans a platerack with it at 50 (yes, 50) yards. I think it kind of surprised him as well





Actually it wasn't. I've seen a lot of folks comment on the pic from various places on the interwbz. If you could see a pic looking over his shoulder, you'd know its alright. His target is acquired and being engaged. We all did the same thing.

That was a heck of stage that I should have thought about more carefully. 18 targets requiring 1 round each. For wheelgunners, this is a no brainer- no make up shots. Well, I should have, I think I earned 3 FTNs on that stage by trying to go too fast. And I wasn't the only one



You talking about the one with Vogel? If so, yeah, it looks bad, but not nearly as bad as the SO who is looking at targets instead of Bob's gun. The tricky thing about "round dumping" calls is that the SO has NO POSSIBLE WAY of knowing the intent of the shooter. I expect that rule will be gone in the next book.



I hear where you're coming from and Mike agrees, but this is not a rule that IDPA should make for all. Of the 6 clubs I shoot at regularly, only 3 are grass and need mowed- 2 are rock and 1 is a sawdust type of thing (smart fellers at those clubs). But, I would be fine with local, individual ranges making rules like your suggesting if they are concerned about injury.

The Vogel one plus Todd Jarret and a few others I didn't recognize. It was from the S&W shoot in 2012 and they shot 11 rounds in 5 targets to hit slide-lock and then go from there. They didn't hesitate, just put 2 in everything until that last and then pop-pop-pop-reload.

 

[sbcman]

Hope everyone enjoyed the match today. I was glad to meet some new guys and some new shooters. The wife did well, but I fear she's got a bit of her husband's heart. She told me that next week she planned to run the Shield, which I commend her for. But on the trip home she's said she might stick with the 9 to avoid so many reloads. GAMER!

How did everyone shoot? I shot fair to midland with my mind concentrating more on how to run SSP for the wife than my own shooting. Had a misfire here and there- don't think I've quite got the feel of seating primers on the Dillon. I need to mentally learn to get over long breaks in matches- I just kind of get out of the mental game when the happens. But, I came away with 2lbs of rifle powder and a M&P45 I didn't have coming in, so all is well

 

[DustyDawg48]

Hope everyone enjoyed the match today. I was glad to meet some new guys and some new shooters. The wife did well, but I fear she's got a bit of her husband's heart. She told me that next week she planned to run the Shield, which I commend her for. But on the trip home she's said she might stick with the 9 to avoid so many reloads. GAMER!

How did everyone shoot? I shot fair to midland with my mind concentrating more on how to run SSP for the wife than my own shooting. Had a misfire here and there- don't think I've quite got the feel of seating primers on the Dillon. I need to mentally learn to get over long breaks in matches- I just kind of get out of the mental game when the happens. But, I came away with 2lbs of rifle powder and a M&P45 I didn't have coming in, so all is well

LOL it is only gaming if you start to nip at the heels of the MA lol I had a fantastic time if a little sore. Hated the one odd round that turned a 15-18 second run into some 44 second buttwhooping! Ouch but one odd round didn't spoil my day. Beautiful weather, great company can't ask for much more!