The Official Redbrush/WSSC IDPA Thread

[DustyDawg48]

Have had 3 weird stages this year that I'm trying to figure out.
One was at RB where we had the 3 steels and 3 shots to start with. It was not a difficult stage given the skill level of the folks on our squad, but every one of us screwed it up.
The other two stages were simple lay out stages that I scored significantly better on than I thought I could.
The other side of the self image thing might be that if you convince yourself that a task is hard then it will be, and vica versa. A growth thing for me might be to start thinking of every stage as a simple stage.
Seems like when you think of a stage as being hard for whatever reason (accuracy, complexity, least favorite type of target) there is a higher probability of that noise going on in your head when you are shooting.



Probably a lot harder for the expert class & above. SS & below we know we are not shooting against Bob Vogel & company and I think that takes pressure off.

I think there is some psychological thing about steel that messes people up. I don't think anybody in our squad went 3/3 but several went 4/3 out of it. I blame my miss on milking the trigger which I've caught myself during dry practicing doing on occasion here lately. That type of COF is also very different because it isn't a 'throw 2 shots and it and go' type of target and people might be already thinking about moving the gun to engage the next target before getting the shot off on the target they are actually on at the moment.

It is harder to track some success because of the varying degrees of movement in some stages plus the random nature of some moving targets and props in many of those. You catch a bad swing and you are toast...you have your mag carrier get caught on the back of the chair...you are toast... how many great shooters do we have that are slowed because of bad wheels and the house turns their Top 5 run into a Top 15 run.

 

[looney2ns]

Excellent posts gentlemen.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Excellent posts gentlemen.

We have been incredibly insightful and productive... world must be ending soon

 

[Bosshoss]

Just offering this in the event it might help- when we shoot well we really need to focus on the process that got us there, not necessarily the result. Along with the right self-image, consistently repeating the process is what brings us out ahead.

I think we've all been there when we've ran a stage or even a match really well and then the next stage or match we just suck it up. What happened? The process that worked in one case wasn't focused on as much as the result. Anyone that is skilled in what they do reveals their skill because they repeat their process. Steve Anderson talks a lot about this and uses the illustration of a painter. If a painter takes his time to tape everything off and get everything right and then just paints, he will have a great result because of the process. If he looks at a great result and says "I can do that again" but the next time he paints he doesn't go through his process of taping everything off, it will be horrible. Same painter, same paint, different process, different result.

I'm fairly certain that all of us that have shot comps more than a year have found the process that works. Problem is, we don't go through the process every time. This ties back into self-image. What we all need to do is find what process works for a good result and focus on repeating the process consistently instead of focusing on repeating the result.

This also helps, especially at majors, if you have a bad run on a COF. The process gets you back into shooting your game and not worrying about the results. One GM I've shot with told me once that he never looks at scores during a match or a classifier etc. He just approaches every course the same way (process) and let's the results fall where they may. Notice, he's a GM, so I'm thinking it works LOL

Just my thoughts if you don't mind a USPSA guy squatting in your thread.
The mental game is a big part of any of the shooting sports but don't get to wrapped up in it. I have the books and read them but I feel that they take a lot for granted. You can read the books and tell yourself that you can do the 20 yard headshot and the 30 yard popper but if you don't have the SKILL to do it you will walk away trying to figure out what went wrong.
IMO shooters practice wrong and practice what they are already good at. I practice what I feel I'm weak at until I'm no longer weak at it. This is for dryfire also. If you have problems with weak hand and strong hand only shooting work on it until you don't panic when you see them in a stage. This makes you mental game stronger.
Example: I shot the USPSA Revolver National this year and we had a shooter on our squad that was A class and 20-25 years younger than me. A good shooter but he concentrated on his speed and not so much his accuracy and some other fundamentals. We were pasting a stage and he asked me what I planned to do on a stage that was 2 bays away and we wouldn't be shooting for over an hour. The stage was 3 targets with 2 having hardcover and the middle one had 2 no shoots leaving a strip down the middle that was the same width as the A Zone and the head of course was open. The stage was 2 shots to each target freestyle and do a reload and the 2 shots to each target WEAK HAND only. I told him probably would do the Big A zone freestyle and move to the head weak hand to be safe. He was really worried about that stage. He finally asked me "you don't seem to worried about that stage are you good at weak handed shooting?"
I told him I was OK at it and wasn't worried about it. When we got to the stage and it was my turn I made ready and the RO screwed up the commands. He apologized and started over and he got tongue tied and screwed them up again. By now his assistant with the clip board was hiding behind it laughing their A** off. He actually screwed it up a third time and finally took a deep breath and got it right on the 4th try. I shot the stage and got my hits and the time was OK I could have shot better but I finish 19th overall on that stage out of 115 shooters. The RO's screw up and my friends worrying didn't affect my performance. My friend didn't do so well BTW.
I try to take things that I'm weak at and make them what I'm strong at. After a while you are more comfortable with everything. and that removes the "I HATE shooting steel, swingers,etc." and you can turn it into something positive like
"this is where I can make some good points" After awhile nothing bothers you.
Having a ritual is fine and dandy but the rest of the world doesn't care about your ritual. You HAVE to be flexible. If you come to a stage and you are on deck and the shooter before you has a AD and is DQ'ed everyone including the RO is on edge. You come to the line and are thinking about NOT getting DQ'ed and not your shooting. You have to be able to shoot when something interrupts your usual routine. Same when you come to a stage and it starts raining you now have to deal with a wet gun and watch your footing and shoot bagged targets. It is not what you had planned and you have to adapt and work through it.
The same applies to "burning in the course of fire" in USPSA matches. You need to remain flexible and adapt when the plan you had falls apart. If you have a malfunction or have several misses on steel you need to have a way to adapt and finish the course of fire. If you go to a USPSA match and watch closely the A and B class Open and Limited shooters that have the highest capacity guns in the match will be the ones doing a standing reload when their plan falls apart. The lower capacity divisions know if they do screw up and have to do a standing reload they still have to do a reload moving to the next position to get back on the plan.
When I look at a stage I make a plan and then look for what if plans in case things go wrong. I have had things go wrong and I finished the stage and the RO say nice run. I don't tell him that I messed up but I adapted and made it work.
Try to not let interruptions bother you because some times you will be running the timer and clipboard right up until it's your time to shoot or forget a magazine and have to go to your bag and get it right before you shoot. The RO can screw up the commands or someone behind you in the squad talks with a loud voice can distract you. You can't expect everything to be perfect when you are on the line so learn to work thru it and it will help your mental game and the fun you have on the range.
from a USPSA guy

 

[sbcman]

Just my thoughts if you don't mind a USPSA guy squatting in your thread.
The mental game is a big part of any of the shooting sports but don't get to wrapped up in it. I have the books and read them but I feel that they take a lot for granted. You can read the books and tell yourself that you can do the 20 yard headshot and the 30 yard popper but if you don't have the SKILL to do it you will walk away trying to figure out what went wrong.
IMO shooters practice wrong and practice what they are already good at. I practice what I feel I'm weak at until I'm no longer weak at it. This is for dryfire also. If you have problems with weak hand and strong hand only shooting work on it until you don't panic when you see them in a stage. This makes you mental game stronger.
Example: I shot the USPSA Revolver National this year and we had a shooter on our squad that was A class and 20-25 years younger than me. A good shooter but he concentrated on his speed and not so much his accuracy and some other fundamentals. We were pasting a stage and he asked me what I planned to do on a stage that was 2 bays away and we wouldn't be shooting for over an hour. The stage was 3 targets with 2 having hardcover and the middle one had 2 no shoots leaving a strip down the middle that was the same width as the A Zone and the head of course was open. The stage was 2 shots to each target freestyle and do a reload and the 2 shots to each target WEAK HAND only. I told him probably would do the Big A zone freestyle and move to the head weak hand to be safe. He was really worried about that stage. He finally asked me "you don't seem to worried about that stage are you good at weak handed shooting?"
I told him I was OK at it and wasn't worried about it. When we got to the stage and it was my turn I made ready and the RO screwed up the commands. He apologized and started over and he got tongue tied and screwed them up again. By now his assistant with the clip board was hiding behind it laughing their A** off. He actually screwed it up a third time and finally took a deep breath and got it right on the 4th try. I shot the stage and got my hits and the time was OK I could have shot better but I finish 19th overall on that stage out of 115 shooters. The RO's screw up and my friends worrying didn't affect my performance. My friend didn't do so well BTW.
I try to take things that I'm weak at and make them what I'm strong at. After a while you are more comfortable with everything. and that removes the "I HATE shooting steel, swingers,etc." and you can turn it into something positive like
"this is where I can make some good points" After awhile nothing bothers you.
Having a ritual is fine and dandy but the rest of the world doesn't care about your ritual. You HAVE to be flexible. If you come to a stage and you are on deck and the shooter before you has a AD and is DQ'ed everyone including the RO is on edge. You come to the line and are thinking about NOT getting DQ'ed and not your shooting. You have to be able to shoot when something interrupts your usual routine. Same when you come to a stage and it starts raining you now have to deal with a wet gun and watch your footing and shoot bagged targets. It is not what you had planned and you have to adapt and work through it.
The same applies to "burning in the course of fire" in USPSA matches. You need to remain flexible and adapt when the plan you had falls apart. If you have a malfunction or have several misses on steel you need to have a way to adapt and finish the course of fire. If you go to a USPSA match and watch closely the A and B class Open and Limited shooters that have the highest capacity guns in the match will be the ones doing a standing reload when their plan falls apart. The lower capacity divisions know if they do screw up and have to do a standing reload they still have to do a reload moving to the next position to get back on the plan.
When I look at a stage I make a plan and then look for what if plans in case things go wrong. I have had things go wrong and I finished the stage and the RO say nice run. I don't tell him that I messed up but I adapted and made it work.
Try to not let interruptions bother you because some times you will be running the timer and clipboard right up until it's your time to shoot or forget a magazine and have to go to your bag and get it right before you shoot. The RO can screw up the commands or someone behind you in the squad talks with a loud voice can distract you. You can't expect everything to be perfect when you are on the line so learn to work thru it and it will help your mental game and the fun you have on the range.
from a USPSA guy

I encourage everyone to take what Paul says here with a grain of salt. I'm not sure he's knows much about shooting sports, he's only been doing this longer than I've been alive.





































Great stuff Paul. Thanks for posting. Incredibly insightful especially from a USPSA shooter

 

[sbcman]

The other two stages were simple lay out stages that I scored significantly better on than I thought I could.
The other side of the self image thing might be that if you convince yourself that a task is hard then it will be, and vica versa. A growth thing for me might be to start thinking of every stage as a simple stage.
Seems like when you think of a stage as being hard for whatever reason (accuracy, complexity, least favorite type of target) there is a higher probability of that noise going on in your head when you are shooting.

Probably a lot harder for the expert class & above. SS & below we know we are not shooting against Bob Vogel & company and I think that takes pressure off.

I think there is some psychological thing about steel that messes people up.

Excellent observations gents, and I would just add this and some of it goes along with what Paul was saying. As important as obtaining the right self-image is, avoiding a negative self-image is equally, if not more, important.

I was one of those that missed the steel and I know why. Every one of us told ourselves "don't miss in three shots." We said this enough that our minds created an image of us missing that steel and that's exactly what we did in our performance. Mike noted that most of us downed it on the 4th shot- why was that? Was our skills somehow increased during the reload? Nope, we just had no image of what would happen after three shots and we just shot the stupid thing like everyone us could do (it is a sin to miss steel with a revo and it burned).

Another example, there was a stage at the GA State match last year that had everyone except revo guys (due to round count) reloading on a tight edge. A HUGE marker showed where not to let your muzzle go when reloading. The SO harped on this at least 5 times. I didn't worry about it because I knew I would not need to reload there. In the end, 2 on the squad was DQ'ed. Their mind was focused on what to do wrong, and even though they was saying don't do it, their image of themselves was of people going past the muzzle zone and that's exactly what they did.

The surest way to hit a NT is to tell yourself "don't hit the NT." Surest way to miss the steel is to say "don't miss the steel." Likewise, don't let someone else' performance of hitting or missing be engrained in your mind. In 2012 a revo shooter on my squad at the Summer Sizzler hit a reload after 5 rounds. Guess who followed him and did the exact same thing LOL

We have been incredibly insightful and productive... world must be ending soon

No doubt, something is bad wrong here. We've even been productive during discussion on Kisada's teeth!

 

[Grelber]

Great stuff Paul. Thanks for posting. Incredibly insightful especially from a USPSA shooter

Can't help but wonder what the guy said for range commands. Probably shouldn't find out so maybe I won't do the same thing .

 

[Kisada]

So much question is, who's going to use this bounty of wisdom on Saturday and who will forget and do the same old routine?

The last few times out to practice or whatnot, the wife and I did a couple runs of the plate racks before we cut out. Not sure of the distance, (15-20yrds from the line) and I don't do too bad, typically 5 for 6. The whole aim small/miss small definitely comes into play.

 

[looney2ns]

At least we won't have the person with the loud voice distracting shooters In our squad the next two matches.

 

[looney2ns]

This Saturday (June 7) will be our next IDPA match. Match will be 6 stages and
100 rounds. New shooter meeting starts at 9:30, match begins at 10:00. Come
out early to help setup. There will not be a side match this month. $15.00 per gun.
Red Brush Rifle Range, Newburgh, In

 

[sbcman]

So much question is, who's going to use this bounty of wisdom on Saturday and who will forget and do the same old routine?

I'd be nice to say I would be there, but I can't say that. Don't know if I can make it or not.

 

[Kisada]

Get it in while you can, no WSSC this month, as the cowboys are taking over if I remember correctly.

 

[DustyDawg48]

At least we won't have the person with the loud voice distracting shooters In our squad the next two matches.

Tell me about it! When Jeff and Steve get together! Yeesh!!!!!

 

[rhinoroach]

Get it in while you can, no WSSC this month, as the cowboys are taking over if I remember correctly.

That is correct. The cowboys are taking over WSSC next week.

BTW I signed up for the Gallatin match today.

 

[sbcman]

That is correct. The cowboys are taking over WSSC next week.

BTW I signed up for the Gallatin match today.

Good deal on Gallatin man!

 

[Grelber]

I'd be nice to say I would be there, but I can't say that. Don't know if I can make it or not.

Yea, late flue or virus here, Saturday at RB does not seem likely. Can't complain though, I missed RB once last year due to the Music City Cup but besides that it has been forever since stuff got in the way.
An extra set of hands for 7:00 set up might be much appreciated.

BTW I signed up for the Gallatin match today.

It is officially a party !!

 

[sbcman]

Yea, late flue or virus here, Saturday at RB does not seem likely. Can't complain though, I missed RB once last year due to the Music City Cup but besides that it has been forever since stuff got in the way.
An extra set of hands for 7:00 set up might be much appreciated.




It is officially a party !!

Make that two of us out for RB. Recover quickly, my friend.

 

[looney2ns]

Yea, late flue or virus here, Saturday at RB does not seem likely. Can't complain though, I missed RB once last year due to the Music City Cup but besides that it has been forever since stuff got in the way.
An extra set of hands for 7:00 set up might be much appreciated.




It is officially a party !!

Yeah, keep your cooties at home! :-)

You'll be missed. Guess Kisada and Steve will get most of the pickin on this match.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Yea, late flue or virus here, Saturday at RB does not seem likely.
!!

Oh no! Me too! Oh, wait... I missed because I am drinking a beer setting by the pool where is is 93 and sunny when you said 'flu' I though you said 'pool' !!! Totally my mistake

 

[Grelber]

Oh no! Me too! Oh, wait... I missed because I am drinking a beer setting by the pool where is is 93 and sunny when you said 'flu' I though you said 'pool' !!! Totally my mistake

Karma, 1, 2, 3, wait for it . . . . .