The Official Redbrush/WSSC IDPA Thread

[sbcman]

With your vision issues I'm surprised you haven't moved to a FO before now. I gotta have the glowing dot up front. Also surprised that a trip to Whittakers netted you no new guns.

 

[looney2ns]

With your vision issues I'm surprised you haven't moved to a FO before now. I gotta have the glowing dot up front. Also surprised that a trip to Whittakers netted you no new guns.

Multiple trips were made around the handgun counter.

 

[Kisada]

Speaking of sights, I think I really hate combat style. Need to test different back straps, bullet weights/loads, etc.

The Smith is so far off from the CZ, it's weirding me out. At 7 - 10 yards, I have to completely cover the head portion with the front, top edge of sight riding top edge of the head, and shots still land right at the down 0 /down 1 "neckline".
Does that sound right?

I did a 6 shot bill drill and 5 were in a 1.5" group, which was awesome, but all placed right on the neck perforation.

 

[looney2ns]

Speaking of sights, I think I really hate combat style. Need to test different back straps, bullet weights/loads, etc.

The Smith is so far off from the CZ, it's weirding me out. At 7 - 10 yards, I have to completely cover the head portion with the front, top edge of sight riding top edge of the head, and shots still land right at the down 0 /down 1 "neckline".
Does that sound right?

I did a 6 shot bill drill and 5 were in a 1.5" group, which was awesome, but all placed right on the neck perforation.

Not to me it doesn't. Can the rear sight be adjusted? Did you try different ammo?

Oh, and if you don't like being muzzled at the gun shop, (from multiple angles at once I might add), then yesterday was not the day to be at the handgun counter at Whitakers. Employee's the main culprit. Made Ganders gun counter look like a safe zone.

 

[Kisada]

Eh, you can drift it for windage, that's about it... No up/down adjustment.
I should probably put the large strap back on, as I don't have overly small hands. I still can't imagine it making that much difference. I need to see if I have some factory 115's to try as well. I don't buy/keep much of that on hand these days.

 

[looney2ns]

SBCman will be along shortly with a 2 cent or less fix I imagine.

Would think the strap size would not matter. The rear sight needs to go up...I think.

 

[sbcman]

Here I am

If you're noticing a difference in poi with different backstraps, then the problem is you. From the description given, sounds as if too much finger is being given to the trigger. It would make sense that you wouldn't have this issue with the CZ because of a little longer and heavier trigger pull, which offsets the lbs you're applying with your finger. Likewise, if the S&W large grip negates the problem, it's because it is putting your finger where it should be.

No ammo grains, powder, primer, etc should make that much difference at 7 yards. Same for sight height.

But if it is absolutely not a gun handling problem then you probably have an M&P from those runs where it was unlocking too quickly at the breach.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Bring the M&P to the next match and have a few others run it and see. I know for me my M&Ps always shot 'low' when I'd move to them from any other platform. The hold was very different up close but the groupings were nice. How do the groupings look? Are they all over like a shotgun or tight? If tight then it might be you if it is all over then it may just be the gun.

The FO were probably a long holdout for me for no real good reason other than I was spoiled for choice and couldn't make up my mind!

And and the only thing stopping me from bringing home a new gun on Saturday was us heading out for vacation very soon! Now when I get back, all bets are off and I'll have something new for the collection almost assuredly LOLOL

 

[Kisada]

I'm kinda bored at the moment, I might run out to RB before it rains and try a few tests. I will admit, the CZ trigger sits farther out (apparently a reason they aren't recommended for peeps with short finger reach), but the trigger is lighter, being single action and all. I'll take some pics if it patterns the same at any point.

Also, I don't think I'm milking or using too much finger, doesn't that usually cause shots to go low and left? Mine are staying pretty centered, just like 3-6" lower than I would expect.



The finger in the second pic looks a bit funny with the angle i was taking pic from. I typically have no more than 1/4 to 1/2 of the length of my first digit seated on the trigger.

 

[looney2ns]

Another suggestion, don't follow Dusty, stick with ONE gun.

Just remember SBC trying to do mag changes on his M&P like he would a revolver.

 

[Kisada]

Another suggestion, don't follow Dusty, stick with ONE gun.

Truth you speak. I guess I haven't really shot that many pistols, so I kinda get a bug to try out different stuff.
Now that I think the fundamentals have sunken in and I can shoot properly for the most part, I'm on the hunt to figure out what I shoot the best.

I did just get back from RB and I guess my hands had the epilepsy yesterday, because I was actually hitting stuff close to what I aimed at for the most part, with the MP. I still think it isn't as inherently accurate as the CZ (maybe in my hand), but it might just be the difference in trigger/striker-fired, maybe the plastic frame vs all steel, who knows...?

I really want to figure out if the m&p or a glock would work for me, as I worry about the CZ crapping out on me at a bad time... parts and a large selection of mods aren't as available (i.e. at gas stations) like they are for the popular polymers. I've watched the AGI video of the inner workings of the CZ, which are definitely more complex by comparison. There's something to be said about simplicity.

 

[dgtk]

Finally made it out to do some live fire drills today and broke in the GoPro too. Felt slower than molasses but average times were actually a lot faster than last few times out

Man, video reveals a lot of sins. My arms & elbows are flapping all over the place like one of those blow up gumbie dudes at a car dealership. If I can calm some of that stuff
down it's gotta be worth quite a bit of time savings.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Truth you speak. I guess I haven't really shot that many pistols, so I kinda get a bug to try out different stuff.
Now that I think the fundamentals have sunken in and I can shoot properly for the most part, I'm on the hunt to figure out what I shoot the best.

I did just get back from RB and I guess my hands had the epilepsy yesterday, because I was actually hitting stuff close to what I aimed at for the most part, with the MP. I still think it isn't as inherently accurate as the CZ (maybe in my hand), but it might just be the difference in trigger/striker-fired, maybe the plastic frame vs all steel, who knows...?

I really want to figure out if the m&p or a glock would work for me, as I worry about the CZ crapping out on me at a bad time... parts and a large selection of mods aren't as available (i.e. at gas stations) like they are for the popular polymers. I've watched the AGI video of the inner workings of the CZ, which are definitely more complex by comparison. There's something to be said about simplicity.

You sould like me on several of those notes! I was talking to Brad on Saturday and one of the things i brought up is that I have to stop confusing 'fun' wih 'success'. Being successful is fun but having fun isn't always bringing successful behavior with it. I love shooting the M&P9 and have a lot of fun doing it but after running some drills and tests I appear to have had more success with the Glock. I tend to want to be fired up about what I am shooting and the g34 had gotten a bit 'reliable' and the M&P9 felt right and was so much fun to break out again...but I had to just make a choice and stick with that one that worked best. It sucks and I figure I can play the field after Sellersberg lol but for now it is dancing with the girl I took to the prom, so to speak, and going back to the Glock.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Finally made it out to do some live fire drills today and broke in the GoPro too. Felt slower than molasses but average times were actually a lot faster than last few times out

Man, video reveals a lot of sins. My arms & elbows are flapping all over the place like one of those blow up gumbie dudes at a car dealership. If I can calm some of that stuff
down it's gotta be worth quite a bit of time savings.

Awesome! It is a huge plus being able to see yourself in action! I'm glad we are seeing pics and videos showing up now because that really helps!!!

 

[sbcman]

I'm kinda bored at the moment, I might run out to RB before it rains and try a few tests. I will admit, the CZ trigger sits farther out (apparently a reason they aren't recommended for peeps with short finger reach), but the trigger is lighter, being single action and all. I'll take some pics if it patterns the same at any point.

Also, I don't think I'm milking or using too much finger, doesn't that usually cause shots to go low and left? Mine are staying pretty centered, just like 3-6" lower than I would expect.

View attachment 29164View attachment 29165

The finger in the second pic looks a bit funny with the angle i was taking pic from. I typically have no more than 1/4 to 1/2 of the length of my first digit seated on the trigger.

I did just get back from RB and I guess my hands had the epilepsy yesterday, because I was actually hitting stuff close to what I aimed at for the most part, with the MP. I still think it isn't as inherently accurate as the CZ (maybe in my hand), but it might just be the difference in trigger/striker-fired, maybe the plastic frame vs all steel, who knows...?

I know, but it doesn't really matter. Well, I'll just offer this, if you're not putting too much into the trigger pull, maybe your focus on the front sight was an issue. Either way, doesn't matter, I'm glad to see that somehow or another the gun is shooting well for you now Whatever you did today, continue to do that exact same thing.

As for CZ vs M&P vs Glock accuracy the only tried way of telling is to shoot them off a rest at about 25 yards, then you'll now for sure.

 

[Kisada]

I do think I prefer a thinner front sight like the FO I put on the cz. Seeing a bit of the target transposed behind the focused front is kind of appealing.

 

[Grelber]

For what it is worth, I've felt some pain & seen friends suffer same because we thought the above part was true. Even , and most frustratingly, when shooting slow bullseye shots I think the gun accuracy I measure on paper is sometimes a lot more about my trigger control & etc , even though it feels like I'm doing everything like I'm supposed to.
I'm back to trying to follow good advice (dry fire 100 rounds for each live fire round) & that seems to really help.

Not implying that that is what is going on with your testing, but for what it is worth that was what was going on with some of my recent testing. A clue to me was that my USPSA gun has something like a 2.5 lb trigger and that is the one I was least likely to shoot low left with. Trying to learn not to bother the gun until after I see the sights lift (and to routinely see the sights lift ) might be something worthwhile for me at least.

 

[Kisada]

For what it is worth, I've felt some pain & seen friends suffer same because we thought the above part was true. Even , and most frustratingly, when shooting slow bullseye shots I think the gun accuracy I measure on paper is sometimes a lot more about my trigger control & etc , even though it feels like I'm doing everything like I'm supposed to.
I'm back to trying to follow good advice (dry fire 100 rounds for each live fire round) & that seems to really help.

Not implying that that is what is going on with your testing, but for what it is worth that was what was going on with some of my recent testing. A clue to me was that my USPSA gun has something like a 2.5 lb trigger and that is the one I was least likely to shoot low left with. Trying to learn not to bother the gun until after I see the sights lift (and to routinely see the sights lift ) might be something worthwhile for me at least.

Watching the sights lift and come back is something I've just recently started to implement into practice, but like every other small thing, it's training myself to do them every time that's the hard part.

 

[Kisada]

Random thought... I noticed yesterday that my 147 test loads didn't seem as different from the 124gr as they did Saturday. More fatigue making them feel softer maybe? (not to mention previously stated accuracy issues that magically went away). I was out longer that day and way hotter.

There was a slightly noticeable difference maybe, but enough to warrant .13 cents vs 9 for 124's...?

 

[Grelber]

Random thought... I noticed yesterday that my 147 test loads didn't seem as different from the 124gr as they did Saturday. More fatigue making them feel softer maybe? (not to mention previously stated accuracy issues that magically went away). I was out longer that day and way hotter.

There was a slightly noticeable difference maybe, but enough to warrant .13 cents vs 9 for 124's...?

More fatigue, different grip, tighter grip ???

Went back to shooting 180 grain 40's at about 148 power factor. To me they feel softer than 147 9's at about 130 pf. Same everything except caliber and powder (clays in the 40 & power pistil in the 9). Just weird.