The Ferguson thread

[printcraft]

You guys aren't following the narrative.

 

[chipbennett]

BREAKING: Justice Department Finds Pattern of Police Bias and Excessive Force in Ferguson

Whelp.

So what percent of violent crime reported is black? Or are we allowed to ask? How about % of murder victims? Or per capita murder rate, by race?

This is a huge fail of Data Analysis 101, Cardinal Rule The First: Correlation Does Not Equal Causation

They found some numbers. So what?

 

[chipbennett]

Uhhhh.... what does that have to do with their findings? Are some people "less" entitled to constitutional protections?

Numbers don't prove that some people received less constitutional protection than others.

If black people in Ferguson were committing more crime than the white people in Ferguson, then the numbers don't show any discrimination whatsoever.

I'll be interested to read the actual report.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Numbers don't prove that some people received less constitutional protection than others.

If black people in Ferguson were committing more crime than the white people in Ferguson, then the numbers don't show any discrimination whatsoever.

I'll be interested to read the actual report.

"If"

The numbers, on the surface, don't paint a very good picture of FPD.

 

[Doug]

This is a huge fail of Data Analysis 101, Cardinal Rule The First: Correlation Does Not Equal Causation

They found some numbers. So what?

I dunno, chipbennett, you're sounding awfully logicist and mathist.

 

[Doug]

"If"

The numbers, on the surface, don't paint a very good picture of FPD.

Without the information on how many crimes each race was committing, this only shows that FPD did NOT adjust their enforcement of laws to achieve racial parity.

Is "quota enforcement" really what we want?

 

[Jomibe]

If black people in Ferguson were committing more crime than the white people in Ferguson, then the numbers don't show any discrimination whatsoever.

If you are LE and you see a black person committing a crime, you are simply supposed to stay in your squad car. Remember?

 

[Doug]

If you are LE and you see a black person committing a crime, you are simply supposed to stay in your squad car. Remember?

In all honesty, I'd prefer that to having somebody's grandmother charged with reckless driving for parking over the line in an effort to bring the "white" numbers up.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Without the information on how many crimes each race was committing, this only shows that FPD did NOT adjust their enforcement of laws to achieve racial parity.

Is "quota enforcement" really what we want?

And the non-crime related figures? Say those concerning searches, traffic stops, and other issues? I find it odd that 67% of the population received 95% of Fn jaywalking citations.

 

[chipbennett]

"If"

The numbers, on the surface, don't paint a very good picture of FPD.

The numbers, on the surface, are completely meaningless. They lack context, which is a critical component of determining of any bias exists.

How do those rates compare to national crime/arrest statistics? They don't appear to be all that out of line, at a cursory glance.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The numbers, on the surface, are completely meaningless. They lack context, which is a critical component of determining of any bias exists.

How do those rates compare to national crime/arrest statistics? They don't appear to be all that out of line, at a cursory glance.

Huh?

 

[chipbennett]

And the non-crime related figures? Say those concerning searches, traffic stops, and other issues? I find it odd that 67% of the population received 95% of Fn jaywalking citations.

Again: who are committing those various infractions?

And jaywalking? Have you been to North St. Louis County? Walking down the middle of the street is just part of the sagging-pants culture of young, black males there. Of course, the real irony with jaywalking is that Darren Wilson declined to cite Brown and Johnson for doing exactly that.

According to another report, one of the biggest "targets" of black people in Ferguson was "failure to appear" - a charge/fine so apparently egregious that the city dropped it this past autumn. Here's a thought: if you have a court date, show up to the frigging court and deal with the matter. Apparently, that's racist, though.

Now, if you want to say that the City of Ferguson was heavy-handed in enforcement of petty infractions in order to fill the city coffers? Sure. I can buy that. But that's not a racial matter. (Here's another thought: if you know your city is acting in such a manner, don't commit the petty infractions that they're nailing people for.)

 

[hoosierdoc]

Huh?

He means nationally these are the numbers you see too. So if ferguson is on par with national averages, how can you say they are biased?

but you knew that are are just being you

 

[Kutnupe14]

He means nationally these are the numbers you see too. So if ferguson is on par with national averages, how can you say they are biased?

but you knew that are are just being you

Yeah, I know what he meant, I'd like to see the methodology behind these figures being similar on a national scale.

 

[chipbennett]

Huh?

For example (just one type of crime: murder), black people constitute about 13% of the US population, and commit just shy of 50% of the murders in the US.

That's an extreme example of the black population committing a given crime at a higher rate than the white population. Ergo, one would reasonably expect that arrests for that crime would be impacted commensurately.

Compared nationally, the relative arrest rates in Ferguson are not unusual. In fact, nearly 1,600 police departments have a greater disparity of black-vs-white arrest rates:

Racial gap in U.S. arrest rates: 'Staggering disparity'

 

[Kutnupe14]

For example (just one type of crime: murder), black people constitute about 13% of the US population, and commit just shy of 50% of the murders in the US.

That's an extreme example of the black population committing a given crime at a higher rate than the white population. Ergo, one would reasonably expect that arrests for that crime would be impacted commensurately.

Compared nationally, the relative arrest rates in Ferguson are not unusual. In fact, nearly 1,600 police departments have a greater disparity of black-vs-white arrest rates:

Racial gap in U.S. arrest rates: 'Staggering disparity'

That article doesn't really help the outlook. Hey, the DOJ put out this report, and they apparently think the there's a problem with the findings. I have an issue with the finding too, on the surface. I would too like to see the official report, and ill be bettered informed then as to whether or not to keep my opinion that the FPD isn't a top notch agency.

 

[chipbennett]

That article doesn't really help the outlook. Hey, the DOJ put out this report, and they apparently think the there's a problem with the findings. I have an issue with the finding too, on the surface. I would too like to see the official report, and ill be bettered informed then as to whether or not to keep my opinion that the FPD isn't a top notch agency.

The current iteration of DOJ is headed by one of the most racist people ever to hold office in the US, who has spent the past six years using the DOJ to push his racist agenda.

I trust anything this DOJ puts out about as far as I can throw Eric Holder.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The current iteration of DOJ is headed by one of the most racist people ever to hold office in the US, who has spent the past six years using the DOJ to push his racist agenda.

I trust anything this DOJ puts out about as far as I can throw Eric Holder.

??? Eric Holder is racist? Who is he oppressing?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

??? Eric Holder is racist? Who is he oppressing?

Oppressive? Probably not so much. Divisive? Absolutely.

He was no better than the media that created fake stories about "hands up, don't shoot", and the entire Trayvon situation. He did nothing to diffuse the hate those issues created.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Family secret: What the left won't tell you about black crime - Washington Times