The Ferguson thread

[Kutnupe14]

Oppressive? Probably not so much. Divisive? Absolutely.

He was no better than the media that created fake stories about "hands up, don't shoot", and the entire Trayvon situation. He did nothing to diffuse the hate those issues created.

I'd say divisive. I'd say incompetent. Not so sure about racist. And I'm not even sure how that would apply to the facts dug on the Ferguson PD, unless Holder himself led the investigation, complied the stats, and wrote the report.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

For example (just one type of crime: murder), black people constitute about 13% of the US population, and commit just shy of 50% of the murders in the US.

That's an extreme example of the black population committing a given crime at a higher rate than the white population. Ergo, one would reasonably expect that arrests for that crime would be impacted commensurately.

Compared nationally, the relative arrest rates in Ferguson are not unusual. In fact, nearly 1,600 police departments have a greater disparity of black-vs-white arrest rates:

Racial gap in U.S. arrest rates: 'Staggering disparity'

One thing that people tend to forget in these debates is there is more police presence in high crime areas. Look at a Marion Co beat map. Note how small the beats are around, say, 38th and Keystone? Now see how big the beats are out cow pasture land in the far southeast corner? Remember there are roughly the same amount of officers per beat, so if you live in a tiny beat you're odds of being seen by a cop that day are much greater just because he covers less geographic area. Now factor in "special teams" type policing that respond to complaints and areas with high amounts of violent crime, and that further increases it.

If you're going to drive drunk, do you think your odds of not being detected are better when there is one cop for 4 square miles or one cop for 4 city blocks? Right. A lot of the so called racial disparity is explained that simply.

 

[hornadylnl]

One thing that people tend to forget in these debates is there is more police presence in high crime areas. Look at a Marion Co beat map. Note how small the beats are around, say, 38th and Keystone? Now see how big the beats are out cow pasture land in the far southeast corner? Remember there are roughly the same amount of officers per beat, so if you live in a tiny beat you're odds of being seen by a cop that day are much greater just because he covers less geographic area. Now factor in "special teams" type policing that respond to complaints and areas with high amounts of violent crime, and that further increases it.

If you're going to drive drunk, do you think your odds of not being detected are better when there is one cop for 4 square miles or one cop for 4 city blocks? Right. A lot of the so called racial disparity is explained that simply.

If policing by broken windows is good policy for urban areas, it should be good policy for everywhere.
It?s Time to End ?Broken Windows? Policing | The Nation

 

[jamil]

Those numbers obviously point to FPD's overt racism. We must apply the concepts found in affirmative action to remedy this racist police force immediately. For example, police must make their contact statistics match the population demographics. Once their arrests of one race is above the demographics they must arrest more of other races before they can arrest any more of that race.

Of course that works the opposite way as well. If a race doesn't get arrested as much, their stats are out of sync with demographics as well. So if the pct of white people arrested doesn't match the demographics, I guess they can only arrest white people until Ferguson is a model city of racial harmony.

It's only fair. Because crime rates are spread exactly evenly across all races. The report says so.

??? Eric Holder is racist? Who is he oppressing?

I think we have different definitions of racist.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Those numbers obviously point to FPD's overt racism. We must apply the concepts found in affirmative action to remedy this racist police force immediately. For example, police must make their contact statistics match the population demographics. Once their arrests of one race is above the demographics they must arrest more of other races before they can arrest any more of that race.

Of course that works the opposite way as well. If a race doesn't get arrested as much, their stats are out of sync with demographics as well. So if the pct of white people arrested doesn't match the demographics, I guess they can only arrest white people until Ferguson is a model city of racial harmony.

It's only fair. Because crime rates are spread exactly evenly across all races. The report says so.



I think we have different definitions of racist.

People keep talking about arrests. No one is paying attention to the other factors? What belief would you have that you would get a "fair shake," if emails disparaging your race is being floated between police staff and court staff? What about if your group is more than twice as likely to be searched, even though you're 26% less likely to hold anything illegal? And what about being subject to 85% of the city's traffic stops? Do white people NOT have cars in Ferguson, and does every black person in Ferguson have one? Or 68% less likely to have a court case dismissed (and lets not be coy, we all know the DOJ would have applied this to similar crimes)?

 

[copperhead-1911]

Uhhhh.... what does that have to do with their findings? Are some people "less" entitled to constitutional protections?

Not at all. No one is entitled to MORE PROTECTION than others. That is the issue democrats have. Dont do crimes and you dont have issues. Countless reports by the fbi and so forth are out about race and crime.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not at all. No one is entitled to MORE PROTECTION than others. That is the issue democrats have. Dont do crimes and you dont have issues. Countless reports by the fbi and so forth are out about race and crime.

If you do the crime, then you do the time. No problem with that. But you everybody who does the crime, should do the same time.

 

[hoosierdoc]

If policing by broken windows is good policy for urban areas, it should be good policy for everywhere.
It?s Time to End ?Broken Windows? Policing | The Nation

Texas Town Experiences 61% Drop in Crime After Firing Their Police Department | The Free Thought Project

 

[jamil]

If you do the crime, then you do the time. No problem with that. But you everybody who does the crime, should do the same time.

I agree with that. But I also suspect that anything coming out of Holder's office is going to have his ideological touch.

 

[mrjarrell]

Texas Town Experiences 61% Drop in Crime After Firing Their Police Department | The Free Thought Project

If you check the Wikipedia page for that town, you'll see that they are still covered by government police agencies. They're just a neighbourhood of Houston. My guess is they got rid of a constable or two and replaced them with the security patrols. Private security will decrease crime, but these folks still have 911 and cops.

 

[pudly]

Texas Town Experiences 61% Drop in Crime After Firing Their Police Department | The Free Thought Project

As stated in the article, the private police force they hired will last until the first lawsuit.

Contrary to the government apparatus, private police, must be efficient as well as safe, for one small mistake or claim could end their entire operation

 

[copperhead-1911]

If you do the crime, then you do the time. No problem with that. But you everybody who does the crime, should do the same time.

Agree 100% there with you.

 

[VUPDblue]

I have been wondering about these kind of numbers since before Ferguson was in the news. I bet I make traffic stops where the driver is black a good 4 to 1 more often than I stop white drivers. Why? Because the population of the area of the city that I police is more densely populated by blacks than whites. My stops probably match the demographic of the motoring public in the area I police. Since I make the majority of my stops after dark, I generally don't know the race or sex of the person driving until the red and blue lights have already come on. The color of the driver means nothing more than the color of the car itself.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If policing by broken windows is good policy for urban areas, it should be good policy for everywhere.
It?s Time to End ?Broken Windows? Policing | The Nation

What do you think that has to do with what I said?

 

[hoosierdoc]

If you check the Wikipedia page for that town, you'll see that they are still covered by government police agencies. They're just a neighbourhood of Houston. My guess is they got rid of a constable or two and replaced them with the security patrols. Private security will decrease crime, but these folks still have 911 and cops.

My point is they did it by patrolling the areas where crime happens, in response to "broken window policing" post.

crime dropped 61% with that approach.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have been wondering about these kind of numbers since before Ferguson was in the news. I bet I make traffic stops where the driver is black a good 4 to 1 more often than I stop white drivers. Why? Because the population of the area of the city that I police is more densely populated by blacks than whites. My stops probably match the demographic of the motoring public in the area I police. Since I make the majority of my stops after dark, I generally don't know the race or sex of the person driving until the red and blue lights have already come on. The color of the driver means nothing more than the color of the car itself.

How densely populated? 70, 80, 90, 99% black?

 

[Kutnupe14]

My point is they did it by patrolling the areas where crime happens, in response to "broken window policing" post.

crime dropped 61% with that approach.

Ferguson, MO is 6.20 square miles. Not exactly a lot of ground to cover.

 

[VUPDblue]

How densely populated? 70, 80, 90, 99% black?

I would say 70-80

 

[hoosierdoc]

Ferguson, MO is 6.20 square miles. Not exactly a lot of ground to cover.

Hence the amount of arrests.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I would say 70-80

Then you're pretty spot on in comparison to your population. It indicates (not that I would believe otherwise), that you're doing your job the right way, and probability backs that up.