The Democrat Primary Race Is Filling Up

[BugI02]

You haven't really thought this through. Even under your specific definition, there is debt bondage, human trafficking, quasi-serfdom and unpaid domestic labor. According to the Global Slavery Index, there were over 40 million people, worldwide, in modern slavery (which includes 15 million in forced marriages). 71% of the total are female.

The common thread among all groups is: poverty. And it isn't decreasing.

So, what's the answer? First world incomes and third world incomes should meet in the middle with everybody settling at second world income levels for the good of all humanity? And no one will cheat or take unfair advantage? Good luck setting up Star Fleet without going through the near terminal world war first (and having warp drive to give the adventurous and ambitious something to do)

 

[Alpo]

Yeah...no....there are studies out there (you can probably find a video or two on the Prager U site) that present a pretty strong case that the world wide poverty has declined and is declining. What we consider poverty (relative wealth compared to someone else)? That probably is what is changing.

That is true. Extreme poverty, designated as those earning less than $1.90 per day, has declined by 1.3 billion since 1990 (through 2018). However, there are still 650 million people that fall into this category in 2018. The outlook is for Sub-Saharan Africa to represent an ongoing crisis of almost 500 million through 2030. (Population in S-S Africa nearly doubled from 1990 to 2015).

This is "extreme" poverty line defined by the World Bank. A person making $ 2.00 per day isn't magically transported to a comfortable lifestyle. According to the World Bank, nearly half the world (46%) lives on less than $5.50 per day.

 

[Alpo]

So, what's the answer? First world incomes and third world incomes should meet in the middle with everybody settling at second world income levels for the good of all humanity? And no one will cheat or take unfair advantage? Good luck setting up Star Fleet without going through the near terminal world war first (and having warp drive to give the adventurous and ambitious something to do)

Another way of viewing this might be to envision what continuing costs are incurred as a result of not reducing the level of poverty. Border protection, continuing high birth rates of children to extreme poverty. Disease. It isn't as if we are doing nothing. We have, along with many other countries, done much to attempt to improve the situation. We started with an almost impossibly large number of people in extreme poverty and have been able to reduce that number considerably. But the challenge is still there to reduce it further.

 

[BugI02]

You've made the claim. It is up to you to show your work. It is my job to show an example where it is false.

Exemplar of a skewed distribution, higher sigmas are not symmetric and are positively skewed

View attachment 84854

Actual US income distribution, this is from 2014

View attachment 84853

US income distribution plotted on a logarithmic scale for the x-axis, for several periods in US history. Note that the normalization of the curve is steady over time with an increasing median

View attachment 84855

 

[nonobaddog]

That is true. Extreme poverty, designated as those earning less than $1.90 per day, has declined by 1.3 billion since 1990 (through 2018). However, there are still 650 billion people that fall into this category in 2018. The outlook is for Sub-Saharan Africa to represent an ongoing crisis of almost 500 million through 2030. (Population in S-S Africa nearly doubled from 1990 to 2015).

This is "extreme" poverty line defined by the World Bank. A person making $ 2.00 per day isn't magically transported to a comfortable lifestyle. According to the World Bank, nearly half the world (46%) lives on less than $5.50 per day.

What planetary systems are you including? That is almost 100 times the population in this one.

 

[jamil]

Yeah...no....there are studies out there (you can probably find a video or two on the Prager U site) that present a pretty strong case that the world wide poverty has declined and is declining. What we consider poverty (relative wealth compared to someone else)? That probably is what is changing.

There's a measurement for that. There's a dozen or so weighted factors that get included in the index. That revolve around standard of living, education, health. For example, access to clean water, sanitation, food/nutrition, etcetera. So that's pretty consistent.

This isn't the poverty index, but it's the poverty rate since 1959. % of families below the poverty line adjusted for inflation. So in 1965 Johnson drags his johnson all over the economy. Then Carter's brilliance shines through with his economic oppression and drives the poverty rate up past 12%. Until Reaganomics drives it back down. Then, of course, read my lips..., back up past 12. Then the expansion of tech through the 1990s drives it back down. The tech bust hits near 2000/2001. GWB with his compassionate conservatism, which is really tax and spend democrat-adjacent, fuels not much of a recovery. Then. You know. Housing bust. This graph only goes up to 2009. Couldn't find one that goes back to 1950s when the poverty level was very high, all the way through today. But it spiked to over 15% in 2010, then started to decline rapidly in 2015 and down to 11.8% in 2018.

Okay, so here's the GINI index (income inequality) for close to the same time period. Doesn't look to me like there's much correlation between poverty rate and GINI index.

 

[Alpo]

What planetary systems are you including? That is almost 100 times the population in this one.

Typo. Fixed. Thanks.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Ole Joe gets some push back and loses his temper (while simultaneously showing his ignorance and proving the guy’s point).

https://tennesseestar.com/2020/03/10/joe-biden-snaps-at-detroit-worker-youre-full-of-sh/

 

[BugI02]

Slavery. It’s not MY definition. It’s THE definition. Real ass slavery is the ownership of people. That can be applied abstractly, as circumstances approach that. But it’s pretty far fetched to say income inequality per se in the US will lead to slavery. That’s hyperbole.

Poverty hasn’t increased in the US as the wealth inequality has grown. The poverty rate is down from the 1950s, and has been relatively flat since, but especially in the last few years it has gone down to ~13% in 2019. The discussion of human trafficking is even less applicable to income inequality, pursuant to your claim that shrinking wealth distribution leads to it.

To be fair to Alpo, you are talking about a specific subset of slavery; specifically chattel slavery. There are also forms of indentured servitude wherein you own a persons labor and future but don't own them bodily. While such may not be as reprehensible or as lethal as chattel slavery, Foxconn needing to place suicide nets on the exterior of the iPhone factory would argue it isn't benign

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

There's a measurement for that. There's a dozen or so weighted factors that get included in the index. That revolve around standard of living, education, health. For example, access to clean water, sanitation, food/nutrition, etcetera. So that's pretty consistent.

This isn't the poverty index, but it's the poverty rate since 1959. % of families below the poverty line adjusted for inflation. So in 1965 Johnson drags his johnson all over the economy. Then Carter's brilliance shines through with his economic oppression and drives the poverty rate up past 12%. Until Reaganomics drives it back down. Then, of course, read my lips..., back up past 12. Then the expansion of tech through the 1990s drives it back down. The tech bust hits near 2000/2001. GWB with his compassionate conservatism, which is really tax and spend democrat-adjacent, fuels not much of a recovery. Then. You know. Housing bust. This graph only goes up to 2009. Couldn't find one that goes back to 1950s when the poverty level was very high, all the way through today. But it spiked to over 15% in 2010, then started to decline rapidly in 2015 and down to 11.8% in 2018.

Okay, so here's the GINI index (income inequality) for close to the same time period. Doesn't look to me like there's much correlation between poverty rate and GINI index.

I probably should have been a bit more explicit and/or precise. I was thinking of articles I’ve read regarding global poverty levels. Yeah, I’ve seen the first graph you posted that suggests the war on poverty has tended to retard Poverty reduction (already occurring at the time of its passage) rather than cure it.

 

[2A_Tom]

It seems that someone that has said in the past that we need to stay on subject is running you down numerous rabbit holes.

 

[jamil]

Well, I guess I'm simple-minded.

I thought that if everybody's income went up 10% we all better off.
I didn't realize that if some richer guy's income went up 10%, I was worse off because 10% of his income was more than 10% of mine.

Nah, the percent increase isn't linear between rich and not rich. The more resources you have the more capacity you have to make more money.

 

[BugI02]

I've seen some of the Prager videos and found them to be of high quality. I've even agreed with some of his observations and conclusions.

My objection is solely to calling his organization a University. It is not. Had he called his group "The Prager Institute or Prager Foundation" none of this conversation would have been necessary. Words, ultimately, must have meaning. He used the term University inappropriately.

You should go back and review NNBD's #4697. Prager is hardly unique in such use, and to single them out speaks of a hidden agenda

 

[jamil]

I don’t know which republicans you communicate with, but the crazy baptist church doesn’t represent any of us. Most that Im around and work with don’t care if someone is gay. You’re stereotyping republicans

Stereotypes often become stereotypes because people notice trends about the group. Sometimes stereotypes are true. What T-Lex said is true. Boomers are less likely to accept gayness as morally acceptable, and conservative boomers are even less likely to be accepting. Younger people are more accepting.

 

[Alpo]

US income distribution plotted on a logarithmic scale for the x-axis, for several periods in US history. Note that the normalization of the curve is steady over time with an increasing median

View attachment 84855

Thank you, but I'm not sure what this graph purports to present other than that curves are normalized. Does it account for inflation over the period or are all curves in fixed dollars as of a certain date?

 

[jamil]

Maybe, but their silence is deafening.
Traditional conservative stances concerning things like:
opposition to Gays in the military serving openly
opposition to Same sex marriage
support of conversion therapy

...seem problematic. Throw in a frequent gay joke about the sexuality of former presidential candidate, which obviously is meant to disparage the lifestyle, and it get even further problematic.

Jokes are jokes.

 

[jamil]

That is true. Extreme poverty, designated as those earning less than $1.90 per day, has declined by 1.3 billion since 1990 (through 2018). However, there are still 650 million people that fall into this category in 2018. The outlook is for Sub-Saharan Africa to represent an ongoing crisis of almost 500 million through 2030. (Population in S-S Africa nearly doubled from 1990 to 2015).

This is "extreme" poverty line defined by the World Bank. A person making $ 2.00 per day isn't magically transported to a comfortable lifestyle. According to the World Bank, nearly half the world (46%) lives on less than $5.50 per day.

Better turn that capitalism dial up a notch worldwide.

 

[BugI02]

Rinse/repeat on the question above, as this is a GoogleUserContent image link...

Got anything that's actually on the PragerU site?

While we're at it... have you found a single page on the PragerU.com site that doesn't have their disclaimer of not accredited, doesn't offer degrees on it? I clicked around for several minutes and it looks to be part of their page template meant to be on literally every single page of their site.

Meanwhile, back on subject.... Democratic Primaries today!!! Is it going to be feel the "Bern" or Bernie feeling the "burn'... methinks the later with the Dems all in on Biden - we will see tonight... or if Michigan is like California in counting their votes, in a week or two. WTH, California, don't you have a computer or two for this stuff?

I want Bernie to do well so he can remain viable right up to the convention. When he is shivved, I want the hand on the knife to be clearly visible so his wing of the party will vote for someone else or support a Bernie 3rd way run

 

[STFU]

Jokes are jokes.

Did you get beyond the first 15 seconds of that thought?
(You might want to re-think that statement.)

 

[jamil]

What planetary systems are you including? That is almost 100 times the population in this one.

Of course he meant 650 million. But 7/10 for the planetary systems.