The confederate flag.

[Kirk Freeman]

Try to imagine, if you will, Americans fought, bled, died and fiercely struggled - Americans - south of the Mason Dixon. They fought, as all soldiers do, for their brothers on either side of them. Most couldn't care less about politics (like now on several fronts around the globe) but will fight to the death for their fellow soldiers, brothers. Our American brothers in grey - their ancestors - many of whom are in my family still in the south - identify strongly with their heritage and find no offense in that symbol.

And if those individuals wish to display a CSA flag, that's just fine as it is their right. But no Southern government should be displaying it as it is a vile symbol as per the words of the government of the Confederacy.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

And if those individuals wish to display a CSA flag, that's just fine as it is their right. But no Southern government should be displaying it as it is a vile symbol as per the words of the government of the Confederacy.

So, the citizens of that state, that fought, bled, and died for that state, are to be forgotten because they lost. Their loyalty to the call of their state, neighbors, friends, family - they are no longer represented in the state house - they and their progeny are to be ignored and forgotten.

 

[jamil]

A personification of the CSA solider. The Union equivalent is Billy Yank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Reb

No Kirk. I wanted you to state which INGOer(s) is Johnny reb, which is what you implied. No one here needs a remedial history lesson.

 

[jamil]

So, the citizens of that state, that fought, bled, and died for that state, are to be forgotten because they lost. Their loyalty to the call of their state, neighbors, friends, family - they are no longer represented in the state house - they and their progeny are to be ignored and forgotten.

Well, that's pretty much what Kirk's conformance doctrine requires. It's best to wipe out any historical trace of a nonconformer's existance.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Well, that's pretty much what Kirk's conformance doctrine requires. It's best to wipe out any historical trace of a nonconformer's existance.

The fact remains - SC was a confederate state. The state of South Carolina called upon it's citizens to fight for their state, give their lives if necessary, for their friends and family, join with their friends and family, for regiments from their neighbors, bleed and die alongside their brothers for the land, their state and their honor. They did. It's a fact. The children of these SC Americans remember. If the citizens of SC want to remember their citizens who answered the call, bled and died for their state, their land, and their brothers, want the rest of the state of SC to believe the state house still represents these loyal brave citizens of SC and the state house still represents and preserves their memory and their children still living and breathing and living on SC soil, then that is their choice and I think they should have it.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

A very good, close and dear friend of mine, lived in Bloomington Indiana nearly all his life, now lives in Bedford Indiana, fought in Vietnam. He was severely wounded and nearly died in that conflict. Today he is reminded of that cost when he passes through a metal detector, visits the doctor, tries to sleep on his back...ask him how it was to return to his homeland - his America. The military told him to dress in civilian clothes to prevent being spit on and otherwise mistreated at the airport...and most other places. Don't talk about the war or the fact you were a soldier fighting in Vietnam they told him. It will only go badly for you.

He fought and nearly died for the brothers in his unit. He was no baby killer. He has never been a rapist - that's what his fellow Americans called him. "The Wall" was and is an attempt to finally recognize our brothers who fought in Vietnam. Our Federal Government called upon these men - not to volunteer - they DRAFTED them into service whether they believed in it's cause or not - FORCED them to fight, then ignored them when they returned.

Ask my friend John, who nearly died in Vietnam, what this symbol means to him:

 

[femurphy77]

Leb, it is a realization of what the Confederate flag stands for. It is slowly overtaking the South. It is horrific that it took this act of terrorism to get politicians to act.

Across The South, A Push To Banish Confederate Flags From State Buildings : The Two-Way : NPR

So what exactly does it stand for and who decided such? To me it's a symbol of a people that felt their government was oppressing them and they decided to stand up to said government and push back. Had the south been victorious it's a fair bet that it would be flying proudly in many places.

The victor gets to tell the story the way they want it told and just because they were the victor doesn't make them right. Historical whitewashing is nothing new and has in fact seen a resurgence in recent years. I just don't see why so many people can be offended by something so simplistic. I have on occassion been called derogatory names by simpletons and they were shocked when I wasn't offended by their limited vocabularys. A word or a symbol only has power over you if you allow it to have power over you.

Of course I guess since Sunday beer sales are off the radar right now and the new left lane law has been beat to death we need something equally insignificant to occupy our time!

 

[ghuns]

Is it a realization of what non-Southerners believe the flag represents? Or, what the flag represents to Southerners?

Symbols mean different things to different people. To my 16 year old hick kid from Indiana self, the stars-n-bars symbolized rebellion. That is why I had it on the front license plate of my truck, yeah, I was cool like that.
It didn't seem to mean, racism, or white supremacy to any of the black people who lived in the neighborhoods in South Bend where I painted houses that summer, because I lived to type this today.

Because there can be no universal understanding of what various symbols mean, the only ones that should be displayed on .gov properties are the US flag and the flag of the state the property is in.

Mississippi is the last state to feature the confederate battle flag as part of its state flag. I personally have no problem with this, as the people in Mississippi voted overwhelmingly to keep it very recently.

 

[rob63]

This is neither here nor there, but can we at least get the names correct? I have seen the CBF referenced several times as the "Stars and Bars" now, and frankly, I'm finding it difficult to believe that the history of the flag actually means all that much to you if you don't even know the proper names.

This is NOT the "Stars and Bars." It is the Confederate Battle Flag, also known as the "Starry Cross." You can actually get more technical than simply referring to it as the CBF, the battle flags of different field armies usually differed, but I don't want to seem more anal about it all than what I already will.
View attachment 39479

This is what the "Stars and Bars" actually looked like. It was the 1st pattern confederate national flag. It wasn't used in the field because it looked too much like the U.S. flag and caused confusion.
View attachment 39480

History lesson over, carry on with the fight.

p.s. If you really want to fly the confederate flag, just fly the 1st national flag, nobody will question it because few people know what it is. The national parks at the various civil war battlegrounds learned this lesson years ago.

 

[ghuns]

I'm finding it difficult to believe that the history of the flag actually means all that much to you if you don't even know the proper names.

You're right. It doesn't mean she-it to me.

It is symbolism of defeated nation which is why it has no place flying over a .gov building.

But thanks for the history lesson.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

This is neither here nor there, but can we at least get the names correct? I have seen the CBF referenced several times as the "Stars and Bars" now, and frankly, I'm finding it difficult to believe that the history of the flag actually means all that much to you if you don't even know the proper names.

This is NOT the "Stars and Bars." It is the Confederate Battle Flag, also known as the "Starry Cross." You can actually get more technical than simply referring to it as the CBF, the battle flags of different field armies usually differed, but I don't want to seem more anal about it all than what I already will.
View attachment 39479

This is what the "Stars and Bars" actually looked like. It was the 1st pattern confederate national flag. It wasn't used in the field because it looked too much like the U.S. flag and caused confusion.
View attachment 39480

History lesson over, carry on with the fight.

p.s. If you really want to fly the confederate flag, just fly the 1st national flag, nobody will question it because few people know what it is. The national parks at the various civil war battlegrounds learned this lesson years ago.

Tru-Dat. Apologies for historical inaccuracies. In the literature, those who fought for the confederacy usually referred to the stars and bars much the way we would say we fight for Old Glory. It was understood that was the confederate flag...not the battle flag.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is neither here nor there, but can we at least get the names correct? I have seen the CBF referenced several times as the "Stars and Bars" now, and frankly, I'm finding it difficult to believe that the history of the flag actually means all that much to you if you don't even know the proper names.

This is NOT the "Stars and Bars." It is the Confederate Battle Flag, also known as the "Starry Cross." You can actually get more technical than simply referring to it as the CBF, the battle flags of different field armies usually differed, but I don't want to seem more anal about it all than what I already will.
View attachment 39479

This is what the "Stars and Bars" actually looked like. It was the 1st pattern confederate national flag. It wasn't used in the field because it looked too much like the U.S. flag and caused confusion.
View attachment 39480

History lesson over, carry on with the fight.

p.s. If you really want to fly the confederate flag, just fly the 1st national flag, nobody will question it because few people know what it is. The national parks at the various civil war battlegrounds learned this lesson years ago.

That was the first flag (the second image). Two others followed, both contain a version of the battle flag.

 

[eldirector]

You're right. It doesn't mean she-it to me.

It is symbolism of defeated nation which is why it has no place flying over a .gov building.

But thanks for the history lesson.

Feel the same about the state flag of Texas? How about Hawaii?

 

[jamil]

You're right. It doesn't mean she-it to me.

It is symbolism of defeated nation which is why it has no place flying over a .gov building.

But thanks for the history lesson.

If I lived in one of those states I'd rather that flag not fly over my state capital. But I'd say to people who weren't residents of my state to **** off and mind their own business.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

The media frenzy represents the urinalists' pattern of latching onto trivialities and running them ragged until the next thing comes along to distract us from anything important going on, combined with the nannys' attempts over the years to find some traction on the issue. It reared its head when this Roof guy showed himself off with flags of various such regimes. If he hadn't done that, you likely wouldn't have heard a peep about the flag. I guess we can say we're fortunate that all but the densest of them have let go of throwing a fit over guns each time.

 

[Kutnupe14]

My home state (Alabama) just took down their flag. Kudos to the Governor. It's a fair bet that once these flags come down, they won't ever go back up.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It's a shame the shark attacks didn't get more air time. This is one of the problems with a 24/7 news cycle and a bajillion news outlets. There is only so much news. So we end up filling space by manufacturing controversy. Sort of like the History channel ran every single fact about Hitler they could, realized they were out of Hitler, and decided to run shows about rebuilding cars because...history?

I surely don't care what is on the flag of a state I don't live in nor visit. People who elect to display the flag should recognize the 1st amendment does not protect them from the opinions of others. The swastika statement early was a solid example. Perhaps you are the descendant of an indian tribe that also used it. Display it if you want. Just don't be surprised if most people figure you're a Nazi. People are going to assign whatever value they have to the symbol to you, they aren't going to ask you "what does that mean to you?" in very many instances. Up to you if that trade off is worth it or not.

 

[HoughMade]

I have to admit that this is a dumb argument to have.

Wait I forgot something. I meant to say:

This is a dumb argument to have...in 2015.

 

[Jomibe]

I always knew my ancestors hailed from Virginia, but when I researched it extensively a few years ago I discovered my people back then fought in the 28th Virginia Infantry. They fought under this flag, which was captured at Gettysburg:



I'm proud of them.

 

[bwframe]

The media frenzy represents the urinalists' pattern of latching onto trivialities and running them ragged until the next thing comes along to distract us from anything important going on, combined with the nannys' attempts over the years to find some traction on the issue. It reared its head when this Roof guy showed himself off with flags of various such regimes. If he hadn't done that, you likely wouldn't have heard a peep about the flag. I guess we can say we're fortunate that all but the densest of them have let go of throwing a fit over guns each time.

Ebay, Amazon, Walmart and other retailers have banned the confederate flag, but they still sell this???
2' x 3' Black Jihad Islam Shahada Sword Muhammad Allah Religion Muslim Flag | eBay