The Baltimore / Freddie Gray situation

[Kutnupe14]

Brace yourselves Baltimore...

Yep, guy dies in police custody, people are probably going to be mad.

 

[chipbennett]

Yep, guy dies in police custody, people are probably going to be mad.

Nevermind that the charges were bogus, and the prosecution's case was laughable. Nevermind that there's zero evidence that any of the officers charged had anything at all to do with the death of the deceased. There's outrage to be had, and racial strife to stoke.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Nevermind that the charges were bogus, and the prosecution's case was laughable. Nevermind that there's zero evidence that any of the officers charged had anything at all to do with the death of the deceased. There's outrage to be had, and racial strife to stoke.

The charges on the deceased? Seems that may be the culture in Baltimore, from whichever perspective you want to view it, bogus charges.

 

[searpinski]

Nevermind that the charges were bogus, and the prosecution's case was laughable. Nevermind that there's zero evidence that any of the officers charged had anything at all to do with the death of the deceased. There's outrage to be had, and racial strife to stoke.

"We're mad and going to riot!!!"
"Why?"
"We're mad and going to riot!!!"

 

[Kirk Freeman]

This verdict does not surprise me.

I hope nothing happens. I have a good friend there attending an industrial hygiene conference there.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This verdict does not surprise me.

I hope nothing happens. I have a good friend there attending an industrial hygiene conference there.

The verdict doesn't surprise me as well, and truth be told it's the right one.... as far as the charges are concerned. Nevertheless the city should lose its *** in a wrongful death suit. And rights shouldn't be dependent on what your zip code happens to be.

 

[Kutnupe14]

"We're mad and going to riot!!!"
"Why?"
"We're mad and going to riot!!!"

Of all the recent civil unrest that there has been in recent years, this one is hard for me to condemn, if it occurs.

 

[Denny347]

Yep, guy dies in police custody, people are probably going to be mad.

I wager money that the VAST majority of those that are "mad" about this incident could not articulate a single accurate fact to support their anger. This hits close to home for me as I had an in custody death this past fall and there was a lot of misguided hate towards me from people that had NO facts, misinformation, and ugly biases.

 

[T.Lex]

I wager money that the VAST majority of those that are "mad" about this incident could not articulate a single accurate fact to support their anger. This hits close to home for me as I had an in custody death this past fall and there was a lot of misguided hate towards me from people that had NO facts, misinformation, and ugly biases.

Ok, but let's leave IA out of this.

 

[Denny347]

Of all the recent civil unrest that there has been in recent years, this one is hard for me to condemn, if it occurs.

Why? Specifically.

 

[Denny347]

Ok, but let's leave IA out of this.

Ha, they actually have my back on this...haha.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Hey, if you think its ok to arrest people for fictional crimes, and those persons end up dead, that's on you. But dare I say, you're living in the wrong country. Because in my country, such things are distasteful to the citizenry.

While Mosby said Friday that the officers had made an illegal arrest because a knife Gray was carrying was not a "switchblade," a violation of state law, the police task force studied the knife and determined it was "spring-assisted," which does violate a Baltimore code.

Gunshot at scene of protests underscores tension in city - Baltimore Sun

§ 59-22 Switch-blade knives.

(a) Possession or sale, etc., prohibited.

It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring or
other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife.

(b) Penalties.

Any person violating the provisions of this section, shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not
more than $500 or be imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both, in the discretion of the court.
(City Code, 1950, art. 24, §155; 1966, art. 19, §160; 1976/83, art. 19, §185.) (Ord. 44-057.)

Where's the fictional crime? As an LEO, you're going to argue that with the way the law is worded probable cause does not exist to arrest someone for a spring assisted knife?

 

[T.Lex]

Where's the fictional crime? As an LEO, you're going to argue that with the way the law is worded probable cause does not exist to arrest someone for a spring assisted knife?

Ok. This is from CNN. So, like RT, consider the source.
Was Freddie Gray's knife legal? - CNN.com

Baltimore City State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby has said the knife was legal under Maryland law, meaning that police had no reason to detain him.

There is also a Reason article on this, though.
If Freddie Gray's Knife Was Legal, Does That Mean His Arrest Wasn't? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

If the main prosecutor says it isn't illegal, that doesn't mean it is true. But, it is compelling. The question then becomes whether the police knew of her position on it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Ok. This is from CNN. So, like RT, consider the source.
Was Freddie Gray's knife legal? - CNN.com



There is also a Reason article on this, though.
If Freddie Gray's Knife Was Legal, Does That Mean His Arrest Wasn't? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

If the main prosecutor says it isn't illegal, that doesn't mean it is true. But, it is compelling. The question then becomes whether the police knew of her position on it.

Something can be legal under state law and be illegal under city law. From the article you linked to:

A police task force studied the knife and determined that it had been illegal, according to the report. The blade had been clipped inside Gray's pants pocket.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Kut, but personalized. As a lawyer, are you going to argue that with the way the law is worded probable cause does not exist to arrest someone for a spring assisted knife? I posted the city law already, and it's the equivalent of a misdemeanor here with up to 1 year in jail.

 

[Expat]

If I get arrested by PoPo for carrying a knife that might be legal and might not. I don't plan on having a physical altercation with several armed officers. I will let the lawyers fight it out. I assume I up my odds at surviving the encounter (maybe not my bank account though).

 

[T.Lex]

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Kut, but personalized. As a lawyer, are you going to argue that with the way the law is worded probable cause does not exist to arrest someone for a spring assisted knife? I posted the city law already, and it's the equivalent of a misdemeanor here with up to 1 year in jail.

See, its a bad idea to ask a lawyer, because the answer is: which do you want it to be?

IMHO something that gives police discretion to decide whether to arrest someone based on THEIR personal views is unconstitutional. The key is whether there's objective parameters to clearly determine whether something is illegal. If there is a question - even one where reasonable people can disagree - then it probably isn't clear, eh?

 

[chipbennett]

The charges on the deceased? Seems that may be the culture in Baltimore, from whichever perspective you want to view it, bogus charges.

Gray was in possession of an illicit weapon. The charges against him were legitimate.

 

[chipbennett]

The verdict doesn't surprise me as well, and truth be told it's the right one.... as far as the charges are concerned. Nevertheless the city should lose its *** in a wrongful death suit. And rights shouldn't be dependent on what your zip code happens to be.

Shouldn't a cause of death be determined before such a lawsuit? The most logical, Occam's Razor explanation is that Gray attempted to self-harm while inside the van, and won himself a Darwin Award. Why should the City of Baltimore be held financially liable for that?

 

[T.Lex]

Shouldn't a cause of death be determined before such a lawsuit? The most logical, Occam's Razor explanation is that Gray attempted to self-harm while inside the van, and won himself a Darwin Award. Why should the City of Baltimore be held financially liable for that?

I think Occam's Razor cuts both ways on this one. (Pun TOTALLY INTENDED!)

Once inside the van, the driver had considerable opportunity and ability to mess with him.

 

[searpinski]

I'm too lazy to go looking for all of the facts. Do we actually know why the prisoner died?