The American Empire has already peaked and is on the downhill slide.

[Alpo]

Paterno took credit for that quote? I'm afraid he's co-opted the ancient Greeks. It's also in early Latin. And Assyrian. A similar quote is from Spain in the middle ages: Dime con quien andas, y te diré quien eres.

 

[BugI02]

You are correct. Further research shows several variations (is it referencing 'who you walk with') from various stages of antiquity, one even being biblical. It is attributed to Paterno in some sources and the form 'a wise man once told me' in your quote made a contemporary source seem more likely

 

[BugI02]

I should know better. One of my favorite quotes is 'Only the dead have seen the end of war'. It was written by George Santayana referencing people calling WWI the war to end all wars. Douglas MacArthur attributed it to Plato in his farewell address to the cadets at west point and people cite that mistake quite often (looking at you, Ridley Scott)

 

[Alpo]

You are correct. Further research shows several variations (is it referencing 'who you walk with') from various stages of antiquity, one even being biblical. It is attributed to Paterno in some sources and the form 'a wise man once told me' in your quote made a contemporary source seem more likely

Well, you assumed wrong and I don't expect you gave me the benefit of the doubt in the first place. And yes, Proverbs 13:20 (written at least 400 BC) is similar.

 

[BugI02]

The only assumption I've made in this whole exchange was to wonder if you might be a Penn State alum based on going straight to DEFCON 1

 

[Alpo]

Peace. The farthest east my college football interest has ever gone is Boulder, Colorado.

 

[BugI02]

Ah, yes. Many moons ago used to ride suzukis up and down 93 btw Golden and Boulder, out past Rocky Flats. Sometimes I wish I had settled down in CO

 

[IndyDave1776]

I learned on INGO that gold always holds its value and is immune to the fluctuations of the evil fiat currency. What was Rome's currency again? Inflation is a symptom, not a disease. Rome's economic engine required expansion, as already outlined. Expansion required more and more military forces. The military forces and cost of occupying became more than the gain from expansion. Stall, fall, splat, goes the economy. Plus, seriously, the whole slave thing. Tough for paid labor to compete against slaves in a no skill labor force...which is what the vast majority of jobs are, particularly in a agrarian society.

Moral failures? Ok. When was the peak of the US moral superiority? When we could own people? When we merely allowed lynch mobs and segregation? Morals have changed, but declined? That's a hard sell.

You could easily make the argument that government UNDERreach doomed the Romans. They were too big for their britches and couldn't coordinate economically (tax collection, for example) or militarily, which led to dissolving into smaller nation states, which led to the issues already discussed.

First, arguing that gold is immune to fluctuation is quite a stretch. That said, it has never been worth zero, but on the other hand, I see more volatility given that it is nowhere near as scarce today as it has been historically.

Rome's currency was in metals, but the inflation I referenced was a direct and immediate response to one of the emperors getting the bright idea to call in the coins and alloy the gold and silver with base metals such as to stretch the value of the treasury. People weren't that dumb then just as today they aren't dumb enough for fiat paper to hold its value when the presses are running as fast as they can.

I see it as critically important that for the purposes of this discussion we NOT conflate the quality of morals with the inclusiveness of morals. While today our societal morals apply far more equally to all than in times past, the quality of those morals has declined severely.

I will grant you that a number of aspects of Roman government could have been more efficient, but imperial subjugation is always difficult and expensive. Just for fun, I could throw out that the Balkans were just as hard to keep in order back then as now, even when two out of the three religions which keep the region lively did not exist, and this is before we get into the scythians of what we know as Germany and Poland.

 

[jamil]

Looking back at the Empires of past centuries, it is difficult to draw equivalence. Typically, those empires controlled the colonial governments, subjugated the peoples and exploited them for economic benefit. The worst is probably Great Britain and the opium trade in China. Despicable.

Having said that, the pursuit of economic profits overseas should be watched carefully. There is no doubt that, left to their own devices, corporations will perform as poorly and with less morality even than Britain. We are a country of law, first and foremost. But what that means to multi-national corporate activities in the 21st century is anyone's guess.

ps. I wish we would stop talking about our "exceptionalism". No one likes a braggart. And the politicians who say it the most are the least "exceptional".

Exceptionalism. We don't usually talk about it until someone tells us we shouldn't say it.

 

[Alpo]

You've obviously never met anyone from Texas.

 

[jamil]

You've obviously never met anyone from Texas.

Have I ever mentioned I hate Dallas? Used to travel there often.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

One of my favorite authors is Robert D. Kaplan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Kaplan He wrote the book Warrior Politics and many other books on politics, foreign affairs, history and travel.

The Official Site of Robert D. Kaplan ? Author, Foreign Correspondent, Geopolitics

Here are some of his articles from years past.

His more controversial essays about the nature of US power have spurred debate and criticism in academia, the media, and the highest levels of government. One of Kaplan's most influential articles include "The Coming Anarchy", published in The Atlantic Monthly in 1994. Critics of the article has compared it to Huntingon's Clash of Civilizationsthesis, since Kaplan presents conflicts in the contemporary world as the struggle between primitivism and civilizations.[SUP][1][/SUP] Another frequent theme in Kaplan's work is the reemergence of cultural and historical tensions temporarily suspended during the Cold War.

The Coming Anarchy - The Atlantic

Robert D. Kaplan - The Atlantic

 

[seedubs1]

I agree that the inclusiveness of morals is at an all time high. However, I absolutely do not agree that the quality of morals has declined. Who is defining these morals? Seems it is people in Christian churches that seem to think they can define what morals are and tell people about their moral superiority. But I'll argue that people, in general, are less into persecution than in the past and moral quality has actually risen. I'll take today's morals over that of 50 years ago any day and twice on Sunday. Hell, 50 years ago, I wouldn't have been able to marry my wife because of interracial marriage persecution. So.....**** the past.

I see it as critically important that for the purposes of this discussion we NOT conflate the quality of morals with the inclusiveness of morals. While today our societal morals apply far more equally to all than in times past, the quality of those morals has declined severely.

 

[INPatriot]

While I cannot argue against anything that has been mentioned here that is leading or will lead or could lead to American decline. I am not ready nor will I ever be willing to throw in the towel. After all, if there is one place on this planet, one beacon where liberty can blaze eternal its here. We are the one country that can have the great (American) comeback.

I will continue to use whatever platform I have with my family, friends and sphere of influence to be a steward of what has made and will continue to make America unique. I will encourage them to do the same within their spheres of influence and if we are truly degrees of separation away we can keep America going in the right direction. Reagan said it best in his farewell, all change in America needs to take place at the dinner table.

 

[Jludo]

Exceptionalism. We don't usually talk about it until someone tells us we shouldn't say it.

That term seemed to be all I heard from the GOP last presidential primary, not so much this year. Probably too many syllables, the term might be alienating to Trumps supporters. That said it's a harder sell that Obama has ruined our country but that we are still exceptional.

 

[oldpink]

That term seemed to be all I heard from the GOP last presidential primary, not so much this year. Probably too many syllables, the term might be alienating to Trumps supporters. That said it's a harder sell that Obama has ruined our country but that we are still exceptional.

...and you there, reveling in its decline the entire time.

 

[Alpo]

'tis difficult when the only person thy sees as worthy is in the mirror

 

[Jludo]

...and you there, reveling in its decline the entire time.

Yes...

 

[Lowe0]

...and you there, reveling in its decline the entire time.

It's a really big leap to suggest that people who disagree with you enjoy the idea of doing harm to their homeland. It's also a leap that I've seen made a lot over the past 7 years.

 

[oldpink]

It's a really big leap to suggest that people who disagree with you enjoy the idea of doing harm to their homeland. It's also a leap that I've seen made a lot over the past 7 years.

Yeah, get back with me about that when the typical oikophobe quits sneering at patriotism.