The 2020 General Election Thread II

[jamil]

For Gods sake!

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress; but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States shall be appointed an Elector.

Not the governor, not the Secretary of State, not the election board.

Are we clear? The framers were...

For Gods sake! Isn't the general complaint that state officials changed some rules concerning election procedures? Or is there some new allegation that state officials were appointing electors?

 

[jamil]

Lenin was a product of his times, and those times look nothing like today. (Same for Stalin.)

The Bolsheviks had to fight a bloody civil war to actually take power. The czar abdicated the throne and for a few months, there was actually a decent democracy (for the standards of the time) that tried to rule. Russia was too big and too agrarian, and those who wanted power wanted it too intensely. (They didn't have the benefit of relatively unselfish founding fathers, like the US did.)

That fight in the vacuum of a working government led to the shooting war which ultimately resulted in the Lenin-led faction forming the government.

That lack of a working gov't is the scary part. Trump's shenanigans [AND Democrats' shenanigans] , IMHO, are unlikely to create that kind of vacuum. But, if for some reason that does happen - or we have parallel competing government - that's a recipe for disaster.

FIFY

 

[T.Lex]

FIFY

Doesn't apply - the Dems are clearly intent on creating a working government.

 

[drillsgt]

Doesn't apply - the Dems are clearly intent on creating a working government.

I bet the democrats can't wait to get started lol.

 

[jamil]

Doesn't apply - the Dems are clearly intent on creating a working government.

As if we don't have one now?

 

[buckwacker]

That's some serious head in sand stuff right there. Here are some more words. Not that you'll bother reading them.

There were many reports of people voting more than once, people voting in states where the did not have legal residence, people voting for elderly, ballot harvesting, people receiving ballots in the mail that weren't theirs, but filling them out anyway. Some of those people got caught. Who knows how many didn't. It's a difficult thing to catch especially if you're an election official also with your head in the sand (meaning, you're not really all that eager to discount ballots that affirm the outcome you want). But. It's impossible to know the scale. Possibly widespread. Possibly not.

And then there are the cases where election rules were changed prior to election. That is a problem. But, again, it's hard to quantify how that impacted the election. How many votes did it account for? There are a few things to figure out there. One, were the rule changes themselves outside the rule of law? Were they changed just to give one party an advantage? And mostly, did it change the election result? Those are legitimate questions which we need an answer to so that future elections can be trusted. It's going to take too long to sort that out in time. So without immediate and incontrovertible evidence to support that the outcome would have been different, I do think the states should certify, but the lawsuits should continue.

If you find that position is unreasonable, I don't know what else to tell you.

My parents in Hamilton County recieved either 3 or 4 absentee/mail ballot applications from Georgia. One had their names(s) on it, the others the farmers name who bought the rest of farm from the folks my parents bought their place from years ago. None of these people have EVER lived in Georgia. My parents have lived in Indiana for 30 years and the farmer was born and raised here.

I told friends over the summer that it looked like dems were setting up a the "most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics" to borrow words from Joe. They started warning about a covid surge timed with the election (hmmm wasn't that convenient) and the need for massive mail voting to "keep people safe". Never mind that they had been protesting, looting, and burning by the thousands, evidently beyond the reach of the virus, but we can't stand in a social distanced line to vote because covid has apparently solely taken up residence at polling places. Then they start the narrative about Trump refusing to accept the result by claiming the election was rigged, never mind that Hillary told Joe not to conceed under ANY circumstances. These are basic Alinsky tactics, to subvert the system and undermine your opponent's response. And when evidence is brought forward that demonstrates large scale irregularities, they say it doesn't matter because it's not significant enough to effect the result, move on, nothing to see here. With this this much smoke, we had better be looking for the fire.

 

[T.Lex]

As if we don't have one now?

That was my point oh Latin one. We do. We may not like it (that comment flows both directions) but it is there and it functions within the bounds most Americans accept.

I expect an orderly, if perhaps a bit unruly, transition of power in which Trump laments his victim status and vows revenge, but mostly does the Twitter equivalent of pounding a table with his shoe.

The small, but non-zero, chance that he tries to hold his own inauguration and conduct himself as if he is POTUS is really the only path toward something like what happened in Russia. A parallel gov't, that attracts its adherents who reject the Biden gov't... that's gonna be problematic. Even if it is a small percentage of people. Like 3% or so.

 

[jamil]

My parents in Hamilton County recieved either 3 or 4 absentee/mail ballot applications from Georgia. One had their names(s) on it, the others the farmers name who bought the rest of farm from the folks my parents bought their place from years ago. None of these people have EVER lived in Georgia. My parents have lived in Indiana for 30 years and the farmer was born and raised here.

I told friends over the summer that it looked like dems were setting up a the "most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics" to borrow words from Joe. They started warning about a covid surge timed with the election (hmmm wasn't that convenient) and the need for massive mail voting to "keep people safe". Never mind that they had been protesting, looting, and burning by the thousands, evidently beyond the reach of the virus, but we can't stand in a social distanced line to vote because covid has apparently solely taken up residence at polling places. Then they start the narrative about Trump refusing to accept the result by claiming the election was rigged, never mind that Hillary told Joe not to conceed under ANY circumstances. These are basic Alinsky tactics, to subvert the system and undermine your opponent's response. And when evidence is brought forward that demonstrates large scale irregularities, they say it doesn't matter because it's not significant enough to effect the result, move on, nothing to see here. With this this much smoke, we had better be looking for the fire.

Of course that kind of stuff happened. How extensive was it? Probably more than most democrats are willing to admit and probably less than most republicans believe.

 

[buckwacker]

Of course that kind of stuff happened. How extensive was it? Probably more than most democrats are willing to admit and probably less than most republicans believe.

It's never happened before. Without an exhaustive investigation how could one make the claim that irregularities were insufficient to effect result? We get this response every time voter fraud is brought up, but it seems there is never a full a complete investigation. Dam officials in corrupt blue cities obfuscate and otherwise hamper any attempts at investigation and then claim nothing was found by the very investigation they rendered meaningless. Why do they resist so vociferously any attempt to investigate these claims?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

For Gods sake!

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress; but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States shall be appointed an Elector.

Not the governor, not the Secretary of State, not the election board.

Are we clear? The framers were...

And if the legislature delegates that authority to the govenor/secretary of state/election board? Would that not also be in the manner as the legislature directs?

 

[Ingomike]

The THING I'm summarizing is the extent to which it appears that there was some voter fraud evident, and it was more than just a little. It's just not quantifiable to the scale that would be needed to invalidate the election in those effected states,

Really? I'm curious just what sources you are reading that have any election fraud news. It is very hard to find because of the news embargo and traditional conservative media is scared they will lose their precious social media accounts.

So let's take Alanta, GA, we have election night reports from MSM of a water main break, and vote counting would resume tomorrow, except no evidence of a main break can be found, FOIA requests found absolutely no evidence of a main break, there was a water leak early in the day that was repaired.

A video of of election counting in a room with 24 machines, counters are shown removing ballots from envelopes, checking them then scanning. It also shows Ralph take a phone call (I have not heard audio but they are trying to get it), shortly thereafter body language and response indicate Ralph tells everyone to go home.

Then a few minutes later Ralph, and Ruby, and her daughter return, pull out cases of ballots that are hidden and not with other ballots being processed before the cut off, not in envelopes, stacked neatly in trays, and proceed to scan these ballots, paying no attention to the ballots that were being processed when everyone left. There also is a noticeable difference in processing if one reviews the video of before and after, you can see the sense of urgency in their movements.

The cases are estimated to hold 6000 ballots and it appears they were ran more than once. This alone is enough to change Georgia. That six states, all crucial to a democrat win, just all stop counting in a short period with Trump having big leads. By the time most of us got up the next morning, Biden had been given bites to take the lead, and here we are. I believe that the machines were fixed to change votes but Trump surprised them with his turnout, an unprecedented incumbent increase, and they had to stop the counts to add ballots to overcome that turnout. We will see if it can be proven, but circumstantial evidence points to that...

A fault in your logic is that you are looking for the single bullet that killed the guy that was shot be multiple times by multiple shooters. Hell, no one but the American people want Trump, he has enemies at every level and I guarantee they all did what they could collectively to defeat him. So by your logic an election stolen by a thousand cuts just does not rise to a level that can overturn an election?

 

[Kutnupe14]

My parents in Hamilton County recieved either 3 or 4 absentee/mail ballot applications from Georgia. One had their names(s) on it, the others the farmers name who bought the rest of farm from the folks my parents bought their place from years ago. None of these people have EVER lived in Georgia. My parents have lived in Indiana for 30 years and the farmer was born and raised here.

I told friends over the summer that it looked like dems were setting up a the "most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics" to borrow words from Joe. They started warning about a covid surge timed with the election (hmmm wasn't that convenient) and the need for massive mail voting to "keep people safe". Never mind that they had been protesting, looting, and burning by the thousands, evidently beyond the reach of the virus, but we can't stand in a social distanced line to vote because covid has apparently solely taken up residence at polling places. Then they start the narrative about Trump refusing to accept the result by claiming the election was rigged, never mind that Hillary told Joe not to conceed under ANY circumstances. These are basic Alinsky tactics, to subvert the system and undermine your opponent's response. And when evidence is brought forward that demonstrates large scale irregularities, they say it doesn't matter because it's not significant enough to effect the result, move on, nothing to see here. With this this much smoke, we had better be looking for the fire.

Where are these ballots now?
And why do you think the Dems were behind that possible attempted voter fraud? By your own admission your parents received GA ballots in Hamilton CO.... HAMILTON COUNTY! Reliably voting, reliably Republican Hamilton Co. Now if we were talking Lake Co., sure.... Dems are trying to rig the election, and EVERYONE would think that, but were talking about, again, Hamilton Co. I don't see how with that instance you can infer (or seem to be) that this is due to Democrat bad actors; when on the surface, Republican bad actors seems more plausible.

 

[Ingomike]

And if the legislature delegates that authority to the govenor/secretary of state/election board? Would that not also be in the manner as the legislature directs?

Can you show where the Georgia SS had authority to make deals with dems to change election procedures?

So so after an election the congress passes a bill, all signed and legal, that that all the elected officials in DC, including President, get an expense paid term at the beach, and designate their staff to do their jobs. Is that constitutional? Not in my book...

 

[Timjoebillybob]

A video of of election counting in a room with 24 machines, counters are shown removing ballots from envelopes, checking them then scanning. It also shows Ralph take a phone call (I have not heard audio but they are trying to get it), shortly thereafter body language and response indicate Ralph tells everyone to go home.

Then a few minutes later Ralph, and Ruby, and her daughter return, pull out cases of ballots that are hidden and not with other ballots being processed before the cut off, not in envelopes, stacked neatly in trays, and proceed to scan these ballots, paying no attention to the ballots that were being processed when everyone left. There also is a noticeable difference in processing if one reviews the video of before and after, you can see the sense of urgency in their movements.

I've seen that video, I do have one question. They showed the table being set up, they showed the cases being pulled out, why didn't they show the cases being placed there?

 

[JettaKnight]

Where are these ballots now?
And why do you think the Dems were behind that possible attempted voter fraud? By your own admission your parents received GA ballots in Hamilton CO.... HAMILTON COUNTY! Reliably voting, reliably Republican Hamilton Co. Now if we were talking Lake Co., sure.... Dems are trying to rig the election, and EVERYONE would think that, but were talking about, again, Hamilton Co. I don't see how with that instance you can infer (or seem to be) that this is due to Democrat bad actors; when on the surface, ...

Sounds like incompetency.

Which is what I gathered from watching hours of testimony from MI. A whole lot of incompetency and failure to follow a process, coupled with partisan fighting. Nothing in those testimonies led me to believe there was voter fraud on a scale anywhere near large enough to sway a presidential election.

... Republican bad actors seems more plausible.

We all know that the Republicans never cheat.

 

[buckwacker]

Where are these ballots now?
And why do you think the Dems were behind that possible attempted voter fraud? By your own admission your parents received GA ballots in Hamilton CO.... HAMILTON COUNTY! Reliably voting, reliably Republican Hamilton Co. Now if we were talking Lake Co., sure.... Dems are trying to rig the election, and EVERYONE would think that, but were talking about, again, Hamilton Co. I don't see how with that instance you can infer (or seem to be) that this is due to Democrat bad actors; when on the surface, Republican bad actors seems more plausible.

Come on Kut, do you really think that anyone attempting to to pull this off on a large scale is going to go through each application to crossreference the address with voter affiliation. Hell, why not check voter registrations then? Why do you not find it odd that people in Indiana who have never lived in or owned property or bussiness in Georgia would receive several applications to request mail in ballots. Also ironic, when couple with this information is the unprecedentedly low rejection rates for these ballots that were recieved. If you can't smell something here, I don't think any amount of evidence would convince you to take it seriously.

 

[Ingomike]

I've seen that video, I do have one question. They showed the table being set up, they showed the cases being pulled out, why didn't they show the cases being placed there?

You should make a FOIA request and show us that. Not many people want to watch hours of surveillance video...

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Can you show where the Georgia SS had authority to make deals with dems to change election procedures?

So so after an election the congress passes a bill, all signed and legal, that that all the elected officials in DC, including President, get an expense paid term at the beach, and designate their staff to do their jobs. Is that constitutional? Not in my book...

Nope, haven't looked. I just asked a question.

Don't know, I'd have to do a bit of study on that. But possibly, can you point to anywhere in the Constitution that they are prohibited from doing so? How many congress critters do you think write their own bill? Read any of the bills? Do any research on the bills? Or do they have their staff do that? I'd say except for the actual voting it would be quite possibly Constitutional. At least as long as it took effect after the next election.

A large portion of the powers the President has have been delegated to him by Congress. Heck we've had a thread or three here *****ing about the powers that the Indiana legislature has delegated to our Governor, including declaring an emergency and the powers associated with it.

 

[Ingomike]

The voices knocking every little point concerning fraud this election are blowing my mind. This is a gun forum and people cannot seem to help themselves but supporting the guy that says he wants to take away guns. Why don't some of you put that intellect you are so proud of to work, like millions of other patriots, finding a way to help the candidate that says he doesn't want to take guns win?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Come on Kut, do you really think that anyone attempting to to pull this off on a large scale is going to go through each application to crossreference the address with voter affiliation. Hell, why not check voter registrations then? Why do you not find it odd that people in Indiana who have never lived in or owned property or bussiness in Georgia would receive several applications to request mail in ballots. Also ironic, when couple with this information is the unprecedentedly low rejection rates for these ballots that were recieved. If you can't smell something here, I don't think any amount of evidence would convince you to take it seriously.

No. That would be ridiculous. However, discerning a county in a respective state that is typically of one political leaning or another is something I would certainly expect to be done. Otherwise you're just sending out ballots randomly. So yeah, I expect some basic legwork.