The 2017 General Salma Hayek discussion thread...Part 3!!!

[Fargo]

It may have been a Hobson's choice. Why would a person take such risks? What's the payoff? What pressure was he under behind the scenes?

And regardless, how does that absolve the policy blunders by Clinton and Obama, that 1) made that choice necessary, and 2) enabled the dangerous situation?


Oh. And Newsweek? Isn't that a tabloid?

Calling Newsweek a tabloid these days is kind of insulting to real tabloids.

 

[Gadgetmonster]

Salma loves tabloids...

 

[SheepDog4Life]

It may have been a Hobson's choice. Why would a person take such risks? What's the payoff? What pressure was he under behind the scenes?

And regardless, how does that absolve the policy blunders by Clinton and Obama, that 1) made that choice necessary, and 2) enabled the dangerous situation?


Oh. And Newsweek? Isn't that a tabloid?

Agreed...

And, all of the following is not directed at you, Jamil.... keep in mind that Stevens' predecessor, Gene Cretz, was "sacked", supposedly for his critical assessment of Ghaddafi, leaked mere months before we were bombing him and his forces.

Riiiggghhttt.

Anyone naive enough to believe that?

WikiLeaks' first casualty US ambassado Gene Cretz for Colonel Gaddafi revelation | Daily Mail Online

Stevens was sent to do a job and not given the security detachment necessary to do that job. Had he sat in Tripoli, he too would have been sacked. He was chosen SPECIFICALLY for his experience and contacts IN BENGHAZI. Read his bio.

Choosing to ignore the reasons for his trip given by his deputy on the ground in Tripoli is, IMO, willfully sticking your head in the sand, putting fingers in your ears and saying "nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah, I'm not going to listen".

He was killed while doing the job he was sent to do.

 

[Alpo]

It may have been a Hobson's choice. Why would a person take such risks? What's the payoff? What pressure was he under behind the scenes?

And regardless, how does that absolve the policy blunders by Clinton and Obama, that 1) made that choice necessary, and 2) enabled the dangerous situation?


Oh. And Newsweek? Isn't that a tabloid?

All administrations blunder in foreign affairs. Come on. International affairs is messy and always has been. We generally aren't privy to the intel that is available when these decisions are made. That intel isn't always accurate. We don't know the competing forces at work.

The only shining example of great diplomacy in the 20th century is probably Nixon opening China. And maybe Lend-Lease in the 1940's. The rest? All of them could be construed by a 21st millennial as fraught with problems. But that's today, where everyone earns a soccer trophy and every opinion is just as valid as everyone else's.

Did you read the letter? The guys who wrote it are not reporters but professionals in the foreign service. Deal with it for what it is.

 

[BugI02]

The military is able to live by "no man left behind", is it too much to expect the same from the suits? It's a simple, straightforward concept; no complex interpretations or deep thinking required

I think The Devil might just come to collect Bill and Hillary in person

 

[BugI02]

From CNN, a source I can only conclude you will find acceptable (and I can always bleach my keyboard)

Clinton: I'm responsible for diplomats' security - CNN

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Monday tried to douse a political firestorm over the deadly assault on a U.S. diplomatic mission in Libya, saying she's responsible for the security of American diplomatic outposts.
"I take responsibility," Clinton told CNN in an interview while on a visit to Peru. "I'm in charge of the State Department's 60,000-plus people all over the world, 275 posts.

 

[printcraft]

From CNN, a source I can only conclude you will find acceptable (and I can always bleach my keyboard)

Clinton: I'm responsible for diplomats' security - CNN

Oh no! hitlary agrees with my position?
Where is that bleach again?

I think The Devil might just come to collect Bill and Hillary in person

He better watch the hell out dealing with the Clintons.

 

[jamil]

From CNN, a source I can only conclude you will find acceptable (and I can always bleach my keyboard)

Clinton: I'm responsible for diplomats' security - CNN

I remember that. It pissed me off. She tries to pin it on a movie, then says, oops, my bad. Taking responsibility means a lot more than that. Shortly after, Obama said, no, HE’s responsible. ****ing virtue signaling **********s, both. She was just trying to look “presidential”.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I remember that. It pissed me off. She tries to pin it on a movie, then says, oops, my bad. Taking responsibility means a lot more than that. Shortly after, Obama said, no, HE’s responsible. ****ing virtue signaling cocsuckers, both. She was just trying to look “presidential”.

And she emailed her daughter Diane Reynolds that same night claiming it was something different...

 

[hoosierdoc]

.

 

[BugI02]

I know it's too simplistic, but it always seemed to me that something as simple as a pair of F-18s sent to strafe the firing positions could have possibly broken that siege - or given more time to organize a more substantial response

To have tried and failed would have been better than to not have tried at all, but IMO she chose CYA

 

[IndyDave1776]

Maybe it was a win/win for Hillary. Let Stevens do whatever it was he was there to do, and then get killed thus being eliminated as a witness to whatever the hell it was he was doing that was not according to the brochure.

 

[jamil]

I know it's too simplistic, but it always seemed to me that something as simple as a pair of F-18s sent to strafe the firing positions could have possibly broken that siege - or given more time to organize a more substantial response

To have tried and failed would have been better than to not have tried at all, but IMO she chose CYA

The official report said that there wasn't assets close enough to get there in time. Boggles the mind why that would be. The whole thing lasted several hours. Smells like a lot of CYA going on.

 

[Woobie]

All I know is when a Clinton is in charge, Americans wind up getting dragged through third world streets.

 

[hoosierdoc]

The official report said that there wasn't assets close enough to get there in time. Boggles the mind why that would be. The whole thing lasted several hours. Smells like a lot of CYA going on.

Weren't there two rapid response teams within a few hundred miles?

 

[jamil]

All administrations blunder in foreign affairs. Come on. International affairs is messy and always has been. We generally aren't privy to the intel that is available when these decisions are made. That intel isn't always accurate. We don't know the competing forces at work.

The only shining example of great diplomacy in the 20th century is probably Nixon opening China. And maybe Lend-Lease in the 1940's. The rest? All of them could be construed by a 21st millennial as fraught with problems. But that's today, where everyone earns a soccer trophy and every opinion is just as valid as everyone else's.

Did you read the letter? The guys who wrote it are not reporters but professionals in the foreign service. Deal with it for what it is.

This sounds an awful lot like **** happens and so the **** what. Get over it and stop ****ting on my side.

I'd liked for Bush to have been held responsible for his ****ups in Iraq. I'd liked for Obama and Clinton to have been held responsible for theirs in Libya. This isn't an example of oh, well, sometimes mistakes are made. Clinton's "mistakes" were a cut different from the normal short-sighted foreign policy blunders. Her "mistakes" were a chain of calamities, schemes concocted through utter incompetence and pure selfish ambition. She had no idea what she was doing, and she was just trying to build a resume for her own presidential campaign. If her mind were focused on engineering the best outcome for America, rather than on engineering her own presidency, likely those mistakes that caused the attack wouldn't have been made.

And it's not like she's the only incompetent ambitious politician who never should have been let anywhere near an email server. One might say the same of Trump. So why does accurately pointing out such shortcomings with Trump come so easily to you, and how can I be so certain that saying, oh well, **** happens, would be extremely difficult for you to say when or if calamity results from Trump's scheming?

For people like Clinton, far from just making simple mistakes short of having a crystal ball, "**** happens" is a completely inappropriate response when the calamity is driven from the schemes of nefarious people.

 

[jamil]

Maybe it was a win/win for Hillary. Let Stevens do whatever it was he was there to do, and then get killed thus being eliminated as a witness to whatever the hell it was he was doing that was not according to the brochure.

I think it was Vice that reported that it was about trying to get our guns back from the terrorists that Hillary unwittingly gave them to. So the death of Stevens was probably not a great loss for her. Dead men can't confirm inconvenient stories.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Hillary Clinton on Trump?s Special Counsel Threat: ?This Is Such an Abuse of Power? ? Mother Jones

This is laughable... having career prosecutors (in the DoJ) actually look at possible/probable crimes is an "abuse of power" while investigating your political opponent, without a defined crime, during an election, solely based upon a "pee-pee memo" that you and the DNC paid to be authored against your opponent, somehow is not?

We are legit deep into "Animal Farm" territory folks... though I do believe the "pigs" are concerned about becoming "bacon".

 

[Woobie]

Hillary Clinton on Trump?s Special Counsel Threat: ?This Is Such an Abuse of Power? ? Mother Jones

This is laughable... having career prosecutors (in the DoJ) actually look at possible/probable crimes is an "abuse of power" while investigating your political opponent, without a defined crime, during an election, solely based upon a "pee-pee memo" that you and the DNC paid to be authored against your opponent, somehow is not?

We are legit deep into "Animal Farm" territory folks... though I do believe the "pigs" are concerned about becoming "bacon".

Thats why the pigs want to take away the horses' guns.

 

[Alpo]

This sounds an awful lot like **** happens and so the **** what. Get over it and stop ****ting on my side.

I'd liked for Bush to have been held responsible for his ****ups in Iraq. I'd liked for Obama and Clinton to have been held responsible for theirs in Libya. This isn't an example of oh, well, sometimes mistakes are made. Clinton's "mistakes" were a cut different from the normal short-sighted foreign policy blunders. Her "mistakes" were a chain of calamities, schemes concocted through utter incompetence and pure selfish ambition. She had no idea what she was doing, and she was just trying to build a resume for her own presidential campaign. If her mind were focused on engineering the best outcome for America, rather than on engineering her own presidency, likely those mistakes that caused the attack wouldn't have been made.

And it's not like she's the only incompetent ambitious politician who never should have been let anywhere near an email server. One might say the same of Trump. So why does accurately pointing out such shortcomings with Trump come so easily to you, and how can I be so certain that saying, oh well, **** happens, would be extremely difficult for you to say when or if calamity results from Trump's scheming?

For people like Clinton, far from just making simple mistakes short of having a crystal ball, "**** happens" is a completely inappropriate response when the calamity is driven from the schemes of nefarious people.

Your slip is showing.

Mistakes are made all the time. We've got line officers who put more men at risk and in harms way for much more dubious reasons than an ambassador getting fried in Libya. For example, I haven't heard much about the Nigeria situation. Is it because Obama/Clinton weren't involved? Hmmm?

Get a grip on proportion, please. Your hatred of Obama and Clinton makes you believe that everyone on the other side hates Trump equally.

I don't really give a damn about him. I hope he gets out of office without doing anything to jeopardize my family, but otherwise he's about as interesting as a Kardashian, which isn't very interesting at all.