That VETO stamp is gonna get pretty worn out over the next 2 years...

[jamil]

I love how people blame the democrats for America's ills, while giving republicans a pass. Not a huge fan of either, but I certainly lean more to the democrat side.

What are America's ills and what are the causes? What can government do about it? Your answer to those questions determine generally which way you lean.

I love how people say "but republicans do it too" as and excuse for demoncrat behavior.

Freedom sucking control freaks.

Ok, here's a question. Can you name the 2 most recent bad presidents, by party?

Responding with that question proves his point. And you ask it as if it has an objective answer. Astonishing.

Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama......

What do I win?

The internet. It's yours. You can have it.

Apparently, tuition to a semester of a political history course. Where would you like to go nearby?

Really? A political history class is about as objective as party doctrine.

History books are written and published by those that want you to view events how they view them. Memory is the best history book.

Memory is the best history book? What do you do when you don't have someone that remembers?

You make **** up that supports your ideology and write it in a textbook. Then you get it published by a major textbook publisher so that other ideologues can teach the **** you made up to young and gullible narcissists in classes like Political History 101, so that they'll believe it because it's taught in a college class in a textbook. And then the young narcissists can argue with pseudo-confident snark on the internet against the ignorant individuals who actually experienced some of that history.

Memory IS the best history book. He didn't say it was the most practical one.

 

[El-Cigarro]

Ok, here's a question. Can you name the 2 most recent bad presidents, by party?

Yes. Barry O'Bammo. Dem. Jimmy Carter. Dem....

 

[El-Cigarro]

Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama......

What do I win?

Damgit! You beat me to it!!!

 

[MisterChester]

George W Bush and Barack Obama......

What do I win?

FTFY

 

[MisterChester]

So you don't vote?

BTW, I'd choose different adjectives. Most on the left are too arrogant and delusional. A very dangerous combination.



I wouldn't excuse Republicans for their acts of treachery. Both parties are all about wielding the power, and what they accomplish is towards that goal first and foremost. They will tell you anything to get you to support them, and then they'll bend you over and make you think it's good for you. However, in recent history no Party has taken America further from its founding principles than the Democrats have in the last 7 years.

Well I do vote, just almost never for either the dems or GOP.

Last 7 years you can certainly make a good argument. Last 30 years it becomes a lot more cloudy. Come to think of it, I can't even think of a president who has stayed completely within their constitutional boundaries in the last century. Taking America away from its founding principles is a tradition now, it doesn't matter if there is an R or D next to your name.

 

[printcraft]

FTFY

Originally Posted by printcraft
Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama......

What do I win?

Edited for reality.

 

[MisterChester]

Edited for reality.

Or lack of it. I'm sorry I just don't see how Carter was worse than Bush in terms of leading Anerica away from the meaning of its founders. The Patriot Act alone does it for me, I'm sure Thomas Jefferson did a complete 360 in his grave after that was signed into law.

 

[jbombelli]

Or lack of it. I'm sorry I just don't see how Carter was worse than Bush in terms of leading Anerica away from the meaning of its founders. The Patriot Act alone does it for me, I'm sure Thomas Jefferson did a complete 360 in his grave after that was signed into law.

And with all the harping the democrats did for years about the Patriot Act what did they do as soon as they had the power to repeal it? They extended it and added NDAA on top. But hey... keep on believing their lying BS.

 

[MisterChester]

And with all the harping the democrats did for years about the Patriot Act what did they do as soon as they had the power to repeal it? They extended it and added NDAA on top. But hey... keep on believing their lying BS.

They got no pass from me on that. They are just as guilty.

 

[Woobie]

It seems to me we may be closing in on the truth. Of course the democrats voiced opposition to the patriot act. But the American people need to see that. It's part of the show. It also makes it believable when they tell us to trust them, they're only using this power for the greater good. Reverse the roles, substitute a couple of names, and the same situation comes into play with the affordable care act. The republicans don't want that repealed any more than Obama does. They are not necessarily cooperating with each other, but their relationship is symbiotic. To support one side is to support both, it's just a matter of which one said the right thing to fool you into siding with them.

 

[jbombelli]

They got no pass from me on that. They are just as guilty.

Most of them got the only pass they ever care about, the only pass that matters, when they were reelected. Our voting public is in such bad shape that people would vote for someone who was caught shoveling children into incinerators because... hey... he's not the other guy.

 

[Twangbanger]

Another? Who are you speaking of as being the most recent, because it obviously isn't Obama? Perhaps you meant legislative achievements you don't agree with?

To clarify my statement of "no legislative achievements in 6 years," I'm looking into my crystal ball and predicting the future (talking 2011-2016, not 2009-2014, and referring to real accomplishments, not routine administrative stuff that's automatically going to pass no matter what). At the end of his 8 years, Obama will have accomplished nothing of legislative significance the last 6 years of his Presidency. That is because he is too radical, his policies scare people, and he lost his Congressional majority because of it. If the Democrats had chosen Hillary in 2008, they could be mopping the floor with Republicans in Congress right now. But, they were obsessed with skin color, and were willing to "go radical" at the first opportunity to get it. They could have waited for the "right" First Black President; but instead of going for Mr. Right, they went for Mr. Right Now. When the mainstream public agrees with your ideas, it has a way of neutralizing the opposition and clearing the way for your policies, forcing people across the aisle to support it although they may not like you personally. Obama simply doesn't have that ability. That's not America's failure; that's Obama's failure. This is what happens when you elect someone because you're in love with what their skin color represents, rather than because of established leadership credentials earned through mainstream appeal. Hillary will steal the possibility that could have been Obama's, and all history will remember is that he was Black. You could have had a historic first who could be remembered proudly. Instead, you got Black George Bush.

Again, just reading the tea leaves. It is what it is.

...I'd be open to voting for a candidate who leaned left and wanted to decrease gun legislation. The opportunity to do this is very far and few between however...

Who was the last Democrat you voted for, who wanted to DECREASE gun legislation? Not just against new legislation...but who actually wanted to roll back what was already in place?

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Or lack of it. I'm sorry I just don't see how Carter was worse than Bush in terms of leading Anerica away from the meaning of its founders. The Patriot Act alone does it for me, I'm sure Thomas Jefferson did a complete 360 in his grave after that was signed into law.

What age were you when Carter was in power? And do you remember personally how bad it felt to be an American under his "leadership"?

For the record - it REALLY sucked, and there was a reason for Reagan!

 

[jamil]

Or lack of it. I'm sorry I just don't see how Carter was worse than Bush in terms of leading Anerica away from the meaning of its founders. The Patriot Act alone does it for me, I'm sure Thomas Jefferson did a complete 360 in his grave after that was signed into law.

AP is right. Were you even alive during the Carter years? This is why experiencing events is better than reading about them in a history book. If you get to write history, you control the narrative.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

WH issues veto threat today against DHS funding bill if House GOP "mucks around" with Pres Obama's immigration exec actions.

 

[rambone]

While I would never argue that Mr. Obama and Mr. Carter were anything but among the very worst, neither one of them gave us the Patriot Act. I daresay that did more to harm our personal liberties than anything else in recent memory, maybe even more than the Affordable Care Act. But I guess it's ok since it has "patriot" in the name, only a traitor would oppose something named patriot. Republicans take our liberties away in the name of national security, democrats take them away in the name of righting social wrongs. SCOTUS decides that even though it violates the constitution, it is in everyone's best interest after all, so it's ok. Saying you like one party or the other is like saying you prefer child molesters to serial killers. One might be worse than the other, but neither is worth your support.

I'm sorry I just don't see how Carter was worse than Bush in terms of leading Anerica away from the meaning of its founders. The Patriot Act alone does it for me, I'm sure Thomas Jefferson did a complete 360 in his grave after that was signed into law.

Just because Bush was responsible for the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security Act, the No Child Left Behind Act, Medicare Part D, the invasion of Iraq, the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, the $700 Billion TARP bailout, the creation of the TSA, a record setting national debt, and numerous other horrendous policies, doesn't make him a bad president OK?

 

[rambone]

 

[Shadow8088]

Just because Bush was responsible for the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security Act, the No Child Left Behind Act, Medicare Part D, the invasion of Iraq, the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, the $700 Billion TARP bailout, the creation of the TSA, a record setting national debt, and numerous other horrendous policies, doesn't make him a bad president OK?

There's those pesky facts that you like to keep throwing around... you know that they don't jive well around here...

 

[MisterChester]

AP is right. Were you even alive during the Carter years? This is why experiencing events is better than reading about them in a history book. If you get to write history, you control the narrative.

I wasn't born yet. Was anyone on INGO alive during the Lincoln years? By that logic many people on here don't know what they're talking about because they haven't lived it.

 

[jamil]

I wasn't born yet. Was anyone on INGO alive during the Lincoln years? By that logic many people on here don't know what they're talking about because they haven't lived it.

And you're doubting this why? And please understand that invoking any "Lincoln speak" will surely evoke a thread jack. Just sayin'.