Texas deputy dies serving no-knock, no-announce SWAT raid for marijuana

[88GT]

And I've never been accused of excessive force. Not once in 15 years. I don't accept responsibility for what others do.

you are 100% right! it is the fault of the legislators. The people have to fix that.

No, the enforcers share responsibility with the law-makers.

 

[phylodog]

No, the enforcers share responsibility with the law-makers.

Nnnnnnnnnnnope.

 

[phylodog]

As I said before, it was not a condemnation of your personal choices. But there is no defense for running roughshod over the public just because it's legal to do so and/or you are ordered to do so. If it is morally wrong, and you choose to do it anyway, is there any wonder why people would question where you stand? There are only 2 possibilities. You either agree with the laws you enforce or you disagree with them but not enough to sacrifice the perks that you get from the employment. You don't have to enforce immoral laws. Either way, you choose to do so.

Blaming the people and arguing that our solution is to write the legislators to change the laws is just a modern version of "just following orders."

I haven't run roughshod over anyone.

I don't do it for the "perks".

I didn't say anything about writing legislators to fix the problem. There are some folks in Connecticut sending a pretty clear message to their elected officials via other means.

 

[steveh_131]

I didn't make the plant illegal. I don't support it continuing to be illegal. I don't conduct the investigations, I don't write the warrants, I don't sign the warrants and I don't accept responsibility that you would like to place on my shoulders. I worked my ****ing ass off getting this job and I've managed to provide a decent life for my family as a direct result of that hard work. If I win Powerball Saturday you'll see me leave it behind, both the things I agree with as well as those I don't.

No one here is willing to make my mortgage payment in return for sacrificing my family's well being by quitting my job on their behalf. I don't smoke weed and I don't worry about a SWAT team kicking down the doors of any of my friends or family for weed. You guys make it legal, you fix the problem the way it's supposed to be fixed. I'll support you all the way. Don't expect others to make sacrifices on your behalf that you wouldn't make for them.

Your career choice is no one's responsibility but your own.

Your inability to support your family without doing things that you find to be morally wrong is your problem.

 

[phylodog]

It's a responsibility of the people, yes. But you are the people, as well as all of the military, and all of law enforcement.

The public doesn't swear an oath to fix these problems, but police and military CERTAINLY do. Which is why I'm finding it increasingly harder to have any respect for either.

The police and military in this country are certainly part of "the people" but they make up what? 5% of the population?

Our system is set up with many layers of involvement from different levels which are used to create legislation, determine its legality and implement appropriate punishment for violators. Many of those people are much better educated and prepared for those duties than I am. However, if you want to eliminate them and leave the entire decision on what is legal and what isn't in the hands of the police go right ahead but I don't think you'd be too pleased with the resulting police state.

If the majority of the people in this country disagreed with the majority of the criminal laws in this country the prisons would be empty from all of the acquittals handed down by the juries.

 

[phylodog]

Your career choice is no one's responsibility but your own.

Your inability to support your family without doing things that you find to be morally wrong is your problem.

I don't so it isn't a problem.

 

[steveh_131]

I don't so it isn't a problem.

You don't participate in no-knock raids?

Or you don't have a moral problem with them?

 

[Birds Away]

Your career choice is no one's responsibility but your own.

Your inability to support your family without doing things that you find to be morally wrong is your problem.

That is a gross over-simplification. If there were no good men and women serving, even an imperfect system, where would we be then? It isn't always as easy as it seems but, from my perspective, we should be applauding the ones who do it right as we continue to ridicule the ones who don't.

 

[phylodog]

You don't participate in no-knock raids?

Or you don't have a moral problem with them?

Never participated in one that I had a moral problem with.

 

[GunnerDan]

I don't so it isn't a problem.

So you dont find it morally wrong to be a part of a no-knock warrant looking for a plant that God himself put on the planet for man to use?

Gunner

 

[Birds Away]

So you dont find it morally wrong to be a part of a no-knock warrant looking for a plant that God himself put on the planet for man to use?

Gunner

If the majority of the people apparently still think it should be outlawed then what is he to do. He was hired to enforce the laws not make them. If he was in a command situation and continuously ordered these raids then that would be another matter.

 

[GunnerDan]

If the majority of the people apparently still think it should be outlawed then what is he to do. He was hired to enforce the laws not make them. If he was in a command situation and continuously ordered these raids then that would be another matter.

If a person morally objects to enforcing a particular law, then they need to quit being a law enforcer and find something else they are morally ok with.

Gunner

 

[steveh_131]

That is a gross over-simplification. If there were no good men and women serving, even an imperfect system, where would we be then? It isn't always as easy as it seems but, from my perspective, we should be applauding the ones who do it right as we continue to ridicule the ones who don't.

It's a simple question. Either you are or are not morally responsible for your actions under orders. Which is it?

Never participated in one that I had a moral problem with.

Would you be morally comfortable with doing those same raids if you were not a police officer?

Would you burst into someone's home, guns drawn, because a snitch said they had drugs?

If the majority of the people apparently still think it should be outlawed then what is he to do.

Don't do it??

 

[GunnerDan]

If the majority of the people apparently still think it should be outlawed then what is he to do. He was hired to enforce the laws not make them. If he was in a command situation and continuously ordered these raids then that would be another matter.

And actually the majority of people now think that cannabis should be legal.

 

[phylodog]

Would you be morally comfortable with doing those same raids if you were not a police officer?

Would you burst into someone's home, guns drawn, because a snitch said they had drugs?

Why would I be serving search or arrest warrants if I was not employed as a police officer?

Been awhile since I was involved on that end up I don't recall anyone writing a search warrant based off of a snitch's statements alone. Always required some sort of corroboration. CI statements were used as lead information unless they were actually buying or were wearing a recording device.

 

[Bunnykid68]

According to this poll it looks like a very slight majority think marijuana should be legal. Of course mot Republicans think it should remain illegal.

Illegal Drugs

 

[phylodog]

According to this poll it looks like a very slight majority think marijuana should be legal. Of course mot Republicans think it should remain illegal.

Illegal Drugs

Hadn't seen that. I think once folks have a chance to see what happens in CO & WA we will see laws changing across the country pretty rapidly.

What I found most interesting was the question about it being a state's right vs federal government. Seems people may be waking up.

 

[Birds Away]

If a person morally objects to enforcing a particular law, then they need to quit being a law enforcer and find something else they are morally ok with.

Gunner

So you would prefer a world where the only people who served as police officers were those with no moral compass whatsoever? That's what you would be left with.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Hadn't seen that. I think once folks have a chance to see what happens in CO & WA we will see laws changing across the country pretty rapidly.

What I found most interesting was the question about it being a state's right vs federal government. Seems people may be waking up.

Damnit, now I have to go read more of it, didn't notice that.

 

[steveh_131]

Why would I be serving search or arrest warrants if I was not employed as a police officer?

What if there were no police? What if you just wanted to see justice served?

Would I see you kicking down doors to confiscate plants and lock up plant ingesters? Do you feel that justice is served by this? Do these people deserve to have their doors kicked down and their lives risked?

So you would prefer a world where the only people who served as police officers were those with no moral compass whatsoever? That's what you would be left with.

A would prefer a world where police officers would use their own moral compass to say "No" when a superior asked them to lock someone in a cage for owning a plant.