SWAT Team invades home and kills dog for a joint.

[Expat]

Thumper, we are busting your balls, but it is all in good fun(for me at least).

If you are going to say statements as asinine as some of the stuff you said, you have to back it up. You can't just make the "ahh, I don't want to offend anyone" excuse, because so far, NO ONE is offended; we just want some sort of reasoning why you think this way.

You guys aren't going to like kiss and make up or something are you? It isn't that hot when guys do it...

 

[radonc73]

Holy **** I just got to watch that video, what *******s. They should let this guy execute ther pets in front of the "peace Officers".
THAT is why people arm themselves from Government Fookholes like this. I can see who the REAL danger is just by watching this video. I am sure it didn't even matter to these guys just another day at the office and they did it without concern for this families well being he could have shot more than a dog, but that would never make it to Youtube, just accidentally destroyed somehow.

I just hope no one in Chicago gets turned in for more than 1 operating gun in the house or this could be them.

 

[Que]

Exactly what barometer is used to determine when LEO’s are excessive? I have read and commented on threads where a girl is punched in the face, and another where a teen was beaten, but many said the “victim” brought it upon themselves. In this case, the LEO’s entered the home with a warrant, “shot a vicious dog (?)” and moved the family members to safety. Outside of this, what was done wrong?

By the way, I understand that those who agreed with the treatment in past threads could be totally different from those commenting here. However, in this case, the officers were carrying out what was their duty. Without knowledge that the team was led by Vick Mackey, I would have to side with the LEO’s, UNTIL some proof was provided that they acted outside their authority. And without this proof or reasonable suspicion due to past illegal activity under the guise of law enforcement, for what reason would anyone side with a suspected criminal?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ut8WUrncQ]YouTube - Vic Mackey showing why he is the Man![/ame]

 

[Benny]

Exactly what barometer is used to determine when LEO’s are excessive? I have read and commented on threads where a girl is punched in the face, and another where a teen was beaten, but many said the “victim” brought it upon themselves. In this case, the LEO’s entered the home with a warrant, “shot a vicious dog (?)” and moved the family members to safety. Outside of this, what was done wrong?

By the way, I understand that those who agreed with the treatment in past threads could be totally different from those commenting here. However, in this case, the officers were carrying out what was their duty. Without knowledge that the team was led by Vick Mackey, I would have to side with the LEO’s, UNTIL some proof was provided that they acted outside their authority. And without this proof or reasonable suspicion due to past illegal activity under the guise of law enforcement, for what reason would anyone side with a suspected criminal?

YouTube - Vic Mackey showing why he is the Man!

The fat girl assaulted that PO several times and was warned several times before she got hit. The punk kid was trying to rally the neighborhood to rise up against the "horrible" LEOs trying to do their job.

I guess there were a few talking about the officers and their antics, but the majority of people in this thread have a beef with the system, not the people doing their jobs(although the guy who shot the 10 lb Corgi can die in a car crash for all I care). I also heard the Pit was kenneled, but that was all heresay, so I won't comment.

A family got their door kicked in and 2 family pets were killed over a F-ing joint...Does anything about that seem a bit excessive to you?

There have been many instances before, between and after those two you mentioned...Nah, nevermind.

 

[rambone]

So... what do y'all think of State's rights now? Some States, regulated prostitution is legal. Others, not. Alcohol sales on Sunday bad. Other States, okay. Marijuana in personal usage amounts? Switchblades? Knives over 4" in your pocket? 30 round magazines post-ban?

I still support states' rights. If I were on the Supreme Court there would be no question in my mind that bans on knives, magazines, & switchblades are unconstitutional. Because while the States have rights to decide their own laws, they don't have the right to break the U.S. Constitution in doing so.

And the best part of regaining states' rights is that the Federal government won't be able to exert its tyranny over the whole country.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Exactly what barometer is used to determine when LEO’s are excessive? I have read and commented on threads where a girl is punched in the face, and another where a teen was beaten, but many said the “victim” brought it upon themselves. In this case, the LEO’s entered the home with a warrant, “shot a vicious dog (?)” and moved the family members to safety. Outside of this, what was done wrong?

By the way, I understand that those who agreed with the treatment in past threads could be totally different from those commenting here. However, in this case, the officers were carrying out what was their duty. ...(snip)

Well, of the examples you used I am only familiar with the one where the Seattle girl is punched in the face.

The difference between that situation and this one is easy. In your example, the officer is clearly on the DEFENSE, punching the girl AFTER she attacked him multiple times. In this video, the SWAT officers acted as an OFFENSIVE powerhouse.

But, as Bazooka pointed out...my issue is more with the Legislators, than the LEOs.

 

[rambone]

If they do this more the crime rate will drop and people will wise up.Just stay away from drugs is that hard to understand?

OK I give up.There must be alot of people on INGO that use illegal drugs.If not why do you stand behind dopeheads?Would you sell this guy a gun when he gets out?I just don't understand.Sorry if anyone is offended.

Why did you give up so quickly? If you want to convince America of your opinion, then speak up. Its not like we are your co-workers you have to see everyday.

I don't use drugs. And I don't think the majority of INGO uses drugs either. I think the average age of our members is close to 30. The majority of the posters on this thread appreciate their individual liberty, more than the warm fuzzy blanket known as government control. The majority of gunowners appreciate their rights, and recognize tyranny when it rears its head.

I don't want to pay thousands of dollars per year to have cops break up parties full of teenagers, chase "dopeheads" around, and break into homes and act like nazis. Its not keeping us safe, it is expensive as hell, and it is cascading the country toward a militarized Police State.

What if this incident was the ATF busting down the doors of someone who possessed an untaxed silencer? Or a guy keeping a gun in his house without a FOID card in Illinois? Or worse yet... keeping a gun on your nightstand, without a trigger lock on it (required in CA)? Do you cheer when lawbreaking gunowners get this kind of treatment? I am a lot more afraid of losing my rights than I am afraid of the guy down the street smoking too much pot.

I just don't care to have Government be my mommy. Your mileage may vary.

 

[MPD179]

Guys, seriously? This guy was a DRUG DEALER.... what has his dealings at his home done to his community? This wasn't about one (1) single joint that they found in his house. The Judge would laugh you out of his chambers if you asked him for a search warrant.

In Lake County you have to have at least 2-3 transactions (recordings on camera) before the prosecutor will even accept dealing charges. We hit a house this past Thursday in a neighborhood where we have had drive by shootings, recent rash of burglaries, and an armed home invasion that were linked to this guys house. The street was flooded with neighbors from an apartment building applauding our actions. I had a chance to watch one of the recordings and saw the drug dealer's three year old daughter standing in the corner of the kitchen watching Daddy pinch off the brick for our CI. Is this the kind of guy some here would support?

Before a SWAT team is activated, certain criteria must be met, such as past known violence or lengthy history of violent felony arrests, threats of murdering police that try to arrest, known to be heavily armed, etc. I'm not sure how some agencies get the wrong address as I have been fortunate enough to never experience this. We have a lot of intel with our own guys (not CI's) watching & tailing a subject prior to the raid.

Now about the SWAT teams.... they are here to stay fellas and are needed! Some situations call for a tactical response and regular patrol are not geared or trained to handle them. If your police department isn't prepared to handle serious situation.... what do you do... who do you call? I do not know of a single SWAT team in operation that has been activated for ANY misdemeanor warrants or arrests.

I know all of our guys are top notch, very professional & most of us are prior military. We have received some of the best training throughout the country and are required to attend FBI SWAT school for certification. Even then your put in the rear with the gear until you've proven yourself. We just don't throw on our gear and go out to play army.

I've read some disturbing articles on INGO about how law enforcement should or shouldn't enforce the laws. Don't hate the Police for enforcing the laws your fellow Americans have voted for. If you don't like the laws that are currently on the books, vote for someone who shares your same opinions & objectives to get the laws changed.

Most of the time I see posts on INGO about how the police are the bad guys. Ive been in LE fifteen (15) years and can only recall two bad apples that were hired on my department and they have been investigated and fired for their actions. No cover ups, no thin blue line BS! They tarnish the shield for the rest of us. We will always see stories about bad police work as none of us are perfect. We are still & will remain the Good Guys! I believe our community strongly supports us through both the good and bad. As long as we have that support... we are good to go

 

[Phil502]

This is true but doesn't even begin to cover it. 60% of the people in Federal prison are there on "drug related offenses."

http://courses.atlas.uiuc.edu/ECON/ECON484/LectureOutlines/Chapter12.PDF

(from my law and economics class).

5% of the world's population
25% of the world's prison population
1 out of every 143 people in our country are imprisoned

This is absolutely appalling to anyone with any sense.



Police work is not a dangerous job. It gets that reputation in the media and in movies. The empirical reality is that it's more dangerous to be a commercial fisherman or a construction worker than a police officer. I'm not suggesting that they should take unnecessary risk, but taking some risk is part of their job, and they are actually less likely to be harmed than many other jobs, some of which we wouldn't even realize were so dangerous.

The police choose SWAT because they have it available. The federal government has issued large grants and huge amounts of money to local law enforcement agencies to train and equip these teams. Of course, they couldn't justify the expense of maintaining these teams to the taxpayers unless they were used for something. So, why not have them doing warrant service? I'm sure search warrants are executed every day. Why have them go to the door in a uniform when they can kick the door in and raid the house?

Once the warrant is issued, there's basically no restriction. And since they've been getting away with it for 20 years, why use less force? After all, the media and the apologists will just err on the side of "officer safety" anyway, even though police work is not that dangerous in the aggregate.

Police work is not dangerous work? Just because it's not commercial fishing or Ironworking does not place it in the Flower Shop through CPA catagory. I have seen lists where it makes it into the top 15 most dangerous jobs. How many careers are out there, 100,000 or so?

Your argument is that pot should be legalized, maybe so but it does not mean much when the cops are supposed to serve a warrant. The guy got caught with one joint, maybe he's lucky or maybe he's innocent, how do we know which one? If they found 19 lbs. of pot, would that change your opinion?

The real question is, why do they think he was dealing?

 

[Que]

The fat girl assaulted that PO several times and was warned several times before she got hit. The punk kid was trying to rally the neighborhood to rise up against the "horrible" LEOs trying to do their job.

I guess there were a few talking about the officers and their antics, but the majority of people in this thread have a beef with the system, not the people doing their jobs(although the guy who shot the 10 lb Corgi can die in a car crash for all I care). I also heard the Pit was kenneled, but that was all heresay, so I won't comment.

A family got their door kicked in and 2 family pets were killed over a F-ing joint...Does anything about that seem a bit excessive to you?

There have been many instances before, between and after those two you mentioned...Nah, nevermind.

"Nah, nevermind"? Let's move beyond kindergarden, shall we? I'm trying to understand how the officers were supposed to know there was only a joint in the home? I'm not saying they were 100% right, but would opinions change if there was a pound of marijuana? Some would argue that Marijuana is practically harmless, so should they even be worried about marijuana? What about meth or cocaine? I have one, how about crack? The officers went in looking for what was listed on the warrant.

You say you don't want to mention the dog being kenneled, but you did. So, did you get that from a reasonable source? Can you provide that same information, here? I'm no fan of criminals and whenever possible, I want to give LEO's, especially the good one's, my support.

BTW, I was referring to the handcuffed kid that was beaten and I agreed the girl should have been punched in that case, for officer safety.

 

[Benny]

"Nah, nevermind"? Let's move beyond kindergarden, shall we?

What does this even mean?

I'm trying to understand how the officers were supposed to know there was only a joint in the home? I'm not saying they were 100% right, but would opinions change if there was a pound of marijuana? Some would argue that Marijuana is practically harmless, so should they even be worried about marijuana? What about meth or cocaine? I have one, how about crack? The officers went in looking for what was listed on the warrant.

Third sentence in the post you quoted:

but the majority of people in this thread have a beef with the system, not the people doing their jobs

You say you don't want to mention the dog being kenneled, but you did. So, did you get that from a reasonable source? Can you provide that same information, here? I'm no fan of criminals and whenever possible, I want to give LEO's, especially the good one's, my support.

Reading comprehension fail #2. I said I wouldn't comment on it, I never said I wouldn't mention it. I would post the definitions of the two to prove to you how wrong you are, but I really don't think that is necessary.

BTW, I was referring to the handcuffed kid that was beaten and I agreed the girl should have been punched in that case, for officer safety.

1. Sorry for the confusion about the "teen being beaten." There have been 2 recent cases, but I ass-u-me-d you meant the one that was actually beaten and not the one slapped around for spitting on an officer.

2. If you agreed that this wasn't excessive force/police brutality, then why did you even mention(<---proper use of the word) it?

 

[E5RANGER375]

We will always see stories about bad police work as none of us are perfect. We are still & will remain the Good Guys! I believe our community strongly supports us through both the good and bad. As long as we have that support... we are good to go

Maybe you Sir, are one of the good guys, but good guys in law enforcement i believe are becoming the minority quickly. I do not believe the majority of most communities support the local LE. I think the majority are afraid of the police and just dont know how to legaly change the strong arm, intimidating tactics they use, and claim keep us safe. well whos gonna protect us from the bad cops? the courts? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, not by far. All it takes is ONE bad cop and the rest can be golden boys and it wont matter. the respect and trust will be/IS gone! Because the bad is so common!! and covered up or made excuses for.
The LE system in this country needs a total revamp.
Also, i dont care if your prior military and on SWAT. there is no constitutional place for military actions or tactics against American Citizens, by local police. call the feds, if you have a big fish thats wanted on felony charges. local cops need to be community champions and try to earn back the citizens respect. Not talk down to us when we critisize them, like many do. we dont owe the police anything. we owe it to ourselves as citizens to obey the laws we help support, or fell asleep while they slid through. Its still the law. Theres no room for individual opinions in police work. you enforce the law AS WRITTEN and thats it. everyone is equal, including police. you catch a cop speeding and he gets the same that i would get. thats the way it should be, but its not, and until it is that way, then the community will NEVER support the police as a whole nor should they. breaking the law is breaking the law, no matter who you are.

 

[Sgt Rock]

gotta go with Sporty here. Damaging their door, trashing their house, terrorizing the family, killing the family pet and taking him out in hand irons in front of his kids, all for an offense that barely warrants a citation is overkill. This isn't nazi Germany. That "Bust" probably cost $10,000 and the pot was worth what? $20? Not the best use of resources.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i dont care if the guy had 10 pounds of weed, it wasnt worth it the way it was done. take the guy down during a traffic stop.

we will look back on these (EVIL POT SMOKERS & DEALERS) one day, when weed is legal (and it will be legalized eventualy) and we will say WHY???? Why did we treat our fellow man so poorly over a wild plant?
why are people sitting in jail FOR LIFE just for having a joint and its their FIRST OFFENSE!!!!???? This is all about generating money!!! the war on pot is as stupid as the alcohol prihibition of the 20's. The government put out false information to the general public back when they first criminalized weed, and they still do it today!! and fools believe it! Wake up America, the govt is lying to you again. weed isnt bad, at all. I DO NOT smoke weed, but if it was legalized I sure might every once in a while.
Several states are decriminalizing weed already. it will be legal within the next 20 years. IF the country even holds up that long.

 

[Que]

What does this even mean?



Third sentence in the post you quoted:






Reading comprehension fail #2. I said I wouldn't comment on it, I never said I wouldn't mention it. I would post the definitions of the two to prove to you how wrong you are, but I really don't think that is necessary.



1. Sorry for the confusion about the "teen being beaten." There have been 2 recent cases, but I ass-u-me-d you meant the one that was actually beaten and not the one slapped around for spitting on an officer.

2. If you agreed that this wasn't excessive force/police brutality, then why did you even mention(<---proper use of the word) it?

I didn't get anything from the 3rd sentence, but never mind.

I mentioned the girl, because I had differing opinions on those two cases, because in one, the officer was "protecting himself" and the other the officer was not in danger. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong here. I'm just trying to figure out how the system is so screwed up in this instance? Is the system encouraging bad law enforcement whenever a warrant is used or is it only when nothing is found? Would the system have been wrong if a large cache of drugs were found, valued in excess of $150,000? What responsibility did the guy have in all of this? He was a drug dealer and if that wasn't the case, there would not have been a warrant and the damage to the house would not have occurred, along with the child being terrorized and the one dog killed and the other injured.

 

[Benny]

I didn't get anything from the 3rd sentence, but never mind.

I mentioned the girl, because I had differing opinions on those two cases, because in one, the officer was "protecting himself" and the other the officer was not in danger. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong here. I'm just trying to figure out how the system is so screwed up in this instance? Is the system encouraging bad law enforcement whenever a warrant is used or is it only when nothing is found? Would the system have been wrong if a large cache of drugs were found, valued in excess of $150,000? What responsibility did the guy have in all of this? He was a drug dealer and if that wasn't the case, there would not have been a warrant and the damage to the house would not have occurred, along with the child being terrorized and the one dog killed and the other injured.

I'm arguing over the FACTS presented. Home damage, child trauma and family(my dogs are my family) injured/killed over a joint.

There was a no knock warrant issued a few years ago because a guy had plants that resembled pot growing in his house and a neighbor looked in the window and called the police. They tried kicking in the door and he shot one of them through the door. He is(was) on trial for murder.
(The events I just mentioned might not be 100% accurate, that's just how I remember it...If you really twist my arm, I may be able to dig up the story).

Like I said before, I don't necessarily disagree with the cops actions, but the "system" that gave them the go ahead for this travesty is completely BS. No knock warrants in general are BS.

 

[MPD179]

Ranger, I can only respond by saying I have always seen and felt supported by my community in most of my agency's actions. In fact ... the first place I have ever seen so little support is right here on INGO! I think most of these anti-LE posts are people trying to spread their personal agenda's as if they have an axe to grind.

Unfortunately, I've spent a good part of my life arresting people that use firearms to do harm to other people, steal, rob, etc.... and then I find a website like INGO a place where responsible, law abidding people like myself share my same passion.

I came thinking of all the fellow gun owners I would meet being I have been raised around firearms my whole life and enjoyed the company of others at public ranges. Instead, I meet people who I thought "had my back" to people im not so sure I can count on anymore. At least a few that post here!

Up until INGO, the only complaints I have ever heard were from the people we arrest being they are always innocent and never do anything wrong etc. I will say the us-vs-them attitude is stronger here than I have ever experienced from fellow Officers. Our us-vs-them mentality we have is the criminals that are shooting, robbing, beating people that can't defend themselves.

As far as calling in the FED's to serve a county felony warrant? Good luck with that one.... they will send you back to the county tactical team. We have a reason as to why several communities joined together to form a multi-jurisdictional SWAT team. FED tactical units serve Fed warrants. Our only option would be ISP SWAT... good team but we're better

You may have a good argument about how police SWAT teams have become militarized. Most the training we receive is/was from current or former military instructors at military bases all around the country. Most this training, equipment, etc. was in the late 90's. In recent years, we have attended good private schools and training at Blackwater or now XE. Like I said before, we are serious and train hard to be our best when we are needed.

Oh... just so you know.... Im definately one of the Good Ones like the others Ive seen post here. I think the main difference between us or our opinions. We (LE) are in the streets answering the calls "walking the walk" while others read the stories in the paper and form their own opinions of how it should/could have been done. But I guess thats why we have courts.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip

I'm sure there are plenty of officers out there who respect the fourth amendment, don't serve on police checkpoints or act like bullies and tyrants. I also suspect that 30-40 years ago, there were a lot more of them. snip.

30-40 years ago, they shot fleeing suspects in the back.

 

[Joe Williams]

Happens, I agree with Thumper. Lots of folks supporting drug use, or at least druggies, on this site. I know ya'll say you don't, but you are being somewhat less than honest.

It's disturbing, because drugs and guns don't mix, though I truly believe there are a few folks on the site who can't see that through the cloud of smoke.

Gee... hope I didn't offend anybody!

 

[Benny]

Happens, I agree with Thumper. Lots of folks supporting drug use, or at least druggies, on this site. I know ya'll say you don't, but you are being somewhat less than honest.

It's disturbing, because drugs and guns don't mix, though I truly believe there are a few folks on the site who can't see that through the cloud of smoke.

Gee... hope I didn't offend anybody!

So, because I feel that this was handled HORRIBLY, I'm now a drug user?

Interesting train of thought.