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  • Son of Liberty

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 7, 2009
    225
    16
    So I'm confused, are you upset that the girls called cause they thought they were getting robbed, or are you upset that the Police Officers who responded to the armed robbery call did so with their guns drawn. Or are you upset that the Police Officers automatically didn't believe that you were a "good guy" because you produced a piece of paper with a name on it that said that person could legally carry a handgun.

    I do understand the stress that you were put under and really do sympathize with that, but I would hope you can reasonably look at it from a Police Officers perspective and the danger they face when responding to that type of call. Also can hope that you do see the outcome for what it was, A robbery call was received by 911, dispatched to the police officers, investigated, and everyone went home safely.

    While I know this post won't be received well by some members here who love to bash LEO's, but hope that others can understand what I'm trying to say.

    Of course after re-reading your OP, I think I can get a pretty good feel for what camp you will fall into, so I probably wasted my time, but hope not.


    Ok lets look at it like this the first cop had to have me move my ladder just for him to come out, next is the big white van with ladders on it and electrical equipment all over it. Finally there is the old light sitting right next to the new light and exposed wires on the side of the building.
    So I guess Im upset that after seeing all of this, hearing my story and seeing my dl and my ltch I was disarmed and frisked, and treated like a criminal.
    When I did nothing wrong and they didn't have the right or the cause to frisk me or take my weapon. How it should have went was this way.

    I had over my info, and the other nine cops sit at the ready while he checks it out. If I made a move for my weapon I would be dropped period. So their safety is not an a problem.
    This isn't the movies and Im not a mystical ninja that can draw and kill nine people before they know what happens.

    I definitely shouldn't have been hemmed up like a crook and disarmed period. Like I said why is their safety more important than mine, since when do all you have to do is go throught twenty five weeks of LE training and suddenly your life has more value than every other citizen in the land.

    In addition I went from a law abiding citizen to a criminal in a second flat.
    As stated above by someone else the should not have ran my dl or ltch or checked to see if the gun was stolen, since I broke no laws, they had no cause to do any of the above things.
     

    MinuteMan47

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Dec 15, 2009
    1,901
    38
    IN
    WOW, thats all you got out of that.


    Here's what I got out of it....You are only looking at it from a perspective of the LEO...Because YOU ARE ONE.

    Let's say a similar situation happened to you while off duty.........oh wait......it wouldn't...... because as soon as you showed your badge they would say "Have a nice day"
     

    lovemachine

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Dec 14, 2009
    15,604
    119
    Indiana
    Ok lets look at it like this the first cop had to have me move my ladder just for him to come out, next is the big white van with ladders on it and electrical equipment all over it. Finally there is the old light sitting right next to the new light and exposed wires on the side of the building.
    So I guess Im upset that after seeing all of this, hearing my story and seeing my dl and my ltch I was disarmed and frisked, and treated like a criminal.
    When I did nothing wrong and they didn't have the right or the cause to frisk me or take my weapon. How it should have went was this way.

    I had over my info, and the other nine cops sit at the ready while he checks it out. If I made a move for my weapon I would be dropped period. So their safety is not an a problem.
    This isn't the movies and Im not a mystical ninja that can draw and kill nine people before they know what happens.

    I definitely shouldn't have been hemmed up like a crook and disarmed period. Like I said why is their safety more important than mine, since when do all you have to do is go throught twenty five weeks of LE training and suddenly your life has more value than every other citizen in the land.

    In addition I went from a law abiding citizen to a criminal in a second flat.
    As stated above by someone else the should not have ran my dl or ltch or checked to see if the gun was stolen, since I broke no laws, they had no cause to do any of the above things.


    So a bad guy couldn't get a white van with ladders and electrical equipment on it?

    Come on. They see you on a ladder after a robbery call. You can't expect them to automatically take YOUR word that you're a good guy, can you? They actually have to prove it for themselves.
     

    Son of Liberty

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 7, 2009
    225
    16
    Here's what I got out of it....You are only looking at it from a perspective of the LEO...Because YOU ARE ONE.

    Let's say a similar situation happened to you while off duty.........oh wait......it wouldn't...... because as soon as you showed your badge they would say "Have a nice day"


    Its funny you should say that because I told them that we were all jiust discussing the situation that happened to me. And that I felt it was a violation of my rights to disarm me.
    And one cop said, hey even when Im off duty if I get pulled over ( probably dosent happen) I tell them I have a gun in the console. I didn't say it then but I should have said, yeah and I bet they don't drag you out of your car take your gun and info., sit you on the curb, check everything and then give you your weapon back to you completely unloaded.

    What would have happened if while I was sitting f ing with my pistol some person walking down the road decided he wanted it, what would I defend myself with, where would the cops be then, oh I know they would be on their way back to collect my body because I was killed, defending myself with nothing.
     

    Son of Liberty

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 7, 2009
    225
    16
    So a bad guy couldn't get a white van with ladders and electrical equipment on it?

    Come on. They see you on a ladder after a robbery call. You can't expect them to automatically take YOUR word that you're a good guy, can you? They actually have to prove it for themselves.
    ''
    Let me put it to you like this our shop is two doors down from this place, same building, like I told the cops. There is more money in that storage spot than there is in that check into cash. Period. Also a crook is not going to go out and buy five hundred dollars worth of electrical wire, plus everything else in the back, to rob a store. All the van doors were open and all this stuff was visable.

    Besides that my proof is in the documentation that I carry, and I should have been treated as a normal citizen as they had no cause once it was shown I was not robbing the store. Period.
    The reason they were there was for a attempted robbery, therefore once that was solved which it was in the first five minutes, they should have not ran my info to check for warrants none of that.
    Also didn't know robbers repair lights before robbing the joint.
    Please tell me why so many of you seem to think that cops have the right to go out of their scope of work?
    It's simple.

    Robbery in Progress
    Investigate
    No robbery happening only a worker, working on light
    Check Id- person has one
    Good day sir, have a nice day
     

    Oldman

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 8, 2010
    36
    6
    Bluffton, In
    The cause of the problem was a hysterical person who should have been verbally reprimanded at the minimum. There was no reason to call in a robbery...a mistake is one thing, stupidity is another.

    I can see both sides after it was called in as a robbery attempt. Overzealous..maybe so.
     

    lovemachine

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Dec 14, 2009
    15,604
    119
    Indiana
    Like I said. They were just making sure. SOME people can create fraud paperwork, ID, documentation.....
    They were called out for a robbery in process. It would have looked pretty bad if they show up, talk to the guy, look at HIS so called documentation. And then don't check it out, just went by his "word". Then the cops leave. 20 minutes later, the place is robbed.

    That would have really sucked, ya know?
     

    rockhopper46038

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    89   0   0
    May 4, 2010
    6,742
    48
    Fishers
    If the LEO's really feel like the only way they can stay safe is to disarm an LTCH carrier, then they are going to do so. I don't like it, but I'd guess they would rather be safe than sorry. I can sympathize, if not agree.

    BUT running the numbers is NOT acceptable, once the license to carry has been established. And if the treatment detailed above is going to be standard practice "for officer safety" then LEO's better start working on the humble apology they should be offering at the end of each and every one of these encounters. The pistol should have been handed back (not placed on a dumpster), an apology and handshake offered, and none of that "load it when we're gone" bulls**t. I truly respect LEO's, but I demand equal respect in return.
     

    lovemachine

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Dec 14, 2009
    15,604
    119
    Indiana
    I'm not standing up for the cops or anything like that. I realize rights have been violated by cops and all that. But sometimes you have to see it from the cops point of view too.
     

    PatriotPride

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Feb 18, 2010
    4,195
    36
    Valley Forge, PA
    WOW, thats all you got out of that.

    It's a legitimate question.

    Many of you seem to be missing the point---the frisk, confiscation of firearm, and running of serial numbers was an outright violation of the OP's rights, and a serious illegal procedure. The LTCH WAS produced---probable cause ended right then and there. They FRISKED him, CONFISCATED his weapon, and RAN THE SERIAL NUMBER. That is unacceptable and unlawful.

    OP, if I was in your position, I would save up for the week and take the biggest "figurative" crap on the supervisor's desk as possible. I'm not one to bash LEOs, but I REALLY do not understand how the actions of the officers involved here can in any way be justified. Maybe a communication to the higher-ups that such behavior could result in serious litigation could induce a few skid-marks to their underwear, and make them think twice before violating someone's rights again in the future. :twocents:
     

    ironjaw

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 2, 2010
    5,776
    36
    Indy Northeast
    THIS

    Did it not occur to you to speak to the nervous lady inside BEFORE you started drilling?

    Not trying to bust your balls, but ya kinda put yourself in an easily avoidable situation, by
    A. Not even knowing the business you were drilling into
    and
    B. Not informing the occupants of said premisses of your legitimate intentions

    We are sadly living in some nervous times with nervous [strike]people[/strike] sheep. One must take extra steps, to keep one's self, out of potentially BAD situations involving nervous police officers.

    It could have had a worse ending, one of those Glocks could have spontaneously involuntarily kaboomed. :rolleyes:

    Just my :twocents:


    +1 on this ^^^^ and what kludge said.

    I'd also like to add that the only difference between you and the crook on the street is you went home at the end of the day rather a jail cell. Police officers have a job to do, with usually not very much info on what they are driving into.....My point, you got your gun, bullets, id, and LTCH back and everyone went on their way!
     

    PatriotPride

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Feb 18, 2010
    4,195
    36
    Valley Forge, PA
    I'm not standing up for the cops or anything like that. I realize rights have been violated by cops and all that. But sometimes you have to see it from the cops point of view too.

    Well, it sounds like you ARE in fact condoning the officers' actions here...I don't "have to see it from the cops point of view too". Their job is not to interpret the law...it's to abide by it. You are right---"rights have been violated by cops and all that". There is NO condoning it. They should be held to a HIGHER standard. If they can't abide by and enforce the laws as written, it is time that they resign or be forcibly removed.
     

    PatriotPride

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Feb 18, 2010
    4,195
    36
    Valley Forge, PA
    +1 on this ^^^^ and what kludge said.

    I'd also like to add that the only difference between you and the crook on the street is you went home at the end of the day rather a jail cell. Police officers have a job to do, with usually not very much info on what they are driving into.....My point, you got your gun, bullets, id, and LTCH back and everyone went on their way!

    I'm confused. Are you saying that the OP should be content that his rights were violated because everything was returned to him at the end? :dunno:
     

    Son of Liberty

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 7, 2009
    225
    16
    I wasnt drilling anything yet I hadn't got to that point yet I used the screw gun to take out two screws which took two seconds, so this drill she thought she heard she didn't.
    She may have a heard me on another light not at their door, point is she got scared for no reason, and could have taken my kids dad from them at worst and at best proved to me that my rights don't exist in the eyes of the cops, and that alot of folks on here don't mind giving up their rights as long as it's just for twenty minutes.
     

    dross

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 27, 2009
    8,699
    48
    Monument, CO
    WOW, thats all you got out of that.

    No, I agreed with most of what you said. Yet the fact that they unloaded his magazines suggests the less than pure attitude you seem to take for granted.

    They were called for a robbery. I can understand why they might check the guy out with more security than an ordinary OC call. But why unload his mags? That indicates an attitude I don't like.

    So, I ask you again, as you gave a solid explanation for everything that happened, except that one thing that without better explanation casts a negative light on all the benefits of the doubt you gave in your explanation.

    WOW, why unload his mags?
     

    ironjaw

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 2, 2010
    5,776
    36
    Indy Northeast
    The cause of the problem was a hysterical person who should have been verbally reprimanded at the minimum. There was no reason to call in a robbery...a mistake is one thing, stupidity is another.

    I can see both sides after it was called in as a robbery attempt. Overzealous..maybe so.
    and this all probably could of been avoided if the OP would of simply walked in and notified of work order being performed outside.
     
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