Suing the BATFE

[THE BIG SITT]

Color me silly but***, I believe you are either on a computer or a smart phone with internet access... But lucky for you the law is posted above... Secure storage behind a keyed / combination lock.. Read it and weep mister ffl man.
I believe that trailer was not only locked, also the wheels were locked and the hitch has a lock.. Well within the law....
And again there is no federal statue that says a ffl has to have a safe...

Well hell, they didn't brake the law! That means it is safe. Thank God we have our government to set these laws so we know how to store our firearms. No, since there is no law telling me, Mr No FFL, how I should store my guns, I will go leave them in my 16 month old son's crib. No law broken? Must be safe

 

[17 squirrel]

Well hell, they didn't brake the law! That means it is safe. Thank God we have our government to set these laws so we know how to store our firearms. No, since there is no law telling me, Mr No FFL, how I should store my guns, I will go leave them in my 16 month old son's crib. No law broken? Must be safe

You don't know anything about me at all son... And in most municipality's you leaving a unsecured firearm within reach of a child / minor you will be breaking the law..
Now if you stored the firearm in a locked trailer next to the child, no worries because the firearm is locked up and secure.

 

[HnK]

Color me silly but***, I believe you are either on a computer or a smart phone with internet access... But lucky for you the law is posted above... Secure storage behind a keyed / combination lock.. Read it and weep mister ffl man.
I believe that trailer was not only locked, also the wheels were locked and the hitch has a lock.. Well within the law....
And again there is no federal statue that says a ffl has to have a safe...

I I don't think silly is the word I would use. You can talk all the **** you want. End of the day you won't pass inspection with out a safe. I've been there and don't that. I've got the t shirt. It's not w law it's a rule of the ATF. Doesn't matter what you think you know. Pick up the phone call the Indy branch and ask them if you would pass without one.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

You don't know anything about me at all son... And in most municipality's you leaving a unsecured firearm within reach of a child / minor you will be breaking the law..
Now if you stored the firearm in a locked trailer next to the child, no worries because the firearm is locked up and secure.

SHOW ME THE LAW THAT SAYS I CAN'T DO THAT AHHHHH!!!!

 

[Fargo]

I'm just using your logic of culpability. Since victims of crime haven't done every (or any?) productive effort to keep crime from happening to them, they are to blame.

Responsibility doesn't die on INGO. Most of us just like to place blame where it belongs.

I defy you to show where I said anyone was "culpable" or to "blame". All I said was that it was not responsible to store machineguns in a thin skin trailer, overnight, in an alley, in a trailer marked with a firearms logo. I would say the same thing even if there weren't stolen...

There are a whole ton of thieves who make a good living off trailer thefts for the simple reason that locked or not, they are really easy to steal.

 

[17 squirrel]

I I don't think silly is the word I would use. You can talk all the **** you want. End of the day you won't pass inspection with out a safe. I've been there and don't that. I've got the t shirt. It's not w law it's a rule of the ATF. Doesn't matter what you think you know. Pick up the phone call the Indy branch and ask them if you would pass without one.

ATF does not make the rules or the laws here, The Legislative Branch of the federal government of the United States makes the laws.
Maybe I also have worn out a few Tee shirts myself.

 

[17 squirrel]

SHOW ME THE LAW THAT SAYS I CAN'T DO THAT AHHHHH!!!!

I don't believe I said ' you ' can't.. I said most municipality's... And with that I should have not been so broad with that statement..
A lot of municipalitys and city's have laws covering keeping guns locked.

For starters...

Eleven states have laws concerning firearm locking devices. Massachusetts is the only state that generally requires that all firearms be stored with a lock in place; California, Connecticut, and New York impose this requirement in certain situations. Other state laws regarding locking devices are similar to the federal law, in that they require locking devices to accompany certain guns manufactured, sold, or transferred. Five of the eleven states also set standards for the design of locking devices or require them to be approved by a state agency for effectiveness

 

[17 squirrel]

SHOW ME THE LAW THAT SAYS I CAN'T DO THAT AHHHHH!!!!

I was just out and about so I rolled into my local police station and asked two officers that were there what would happen to a adult in Indiana who left a loaded unsecured firearm where a child could get it and a shooting happened. What would happen to the adult that left the firearm accessible.
I was told at the minimum they would be charged with Criminal Recklessness.

 

[Bluejeeper]

Oh goody, this again!

 

[Fargo]

I was just out and about so I rolled into my local police station and asked two officers that were there what would happen to a adult in Indiana who left a loaded unsecured firearm where a child could get it and a shooting happened. What would happen to the adult that left the firearm accessible.
I was told at the minimum they would be charged with Criminal Recklessness.

Are you under the impression that the police can charge people with a crime in Indiana?

 

[17 squirrel]

Are you under the impression that the police can charge people with a crime in Indiana?

I'm not under any impression.. I firmly believe that the charges could include recklessness endangerment, failure to properly secure a firearm, child endangerment, first degree assault (lesser included offenses), and otherwise if the resulting injury caused a death.

 

[Robjps]

I I don't think silly is the word I would use. You can talk all the **** you want. End of the day you won't pass inspection with out a safe. I've been there and don't that. I've got the t shirt. It's not w law it's a rule of the ATF. Doesn't matter what you think you know. Pick up the phone call the Indy branch and ask them if you would pass without one.

I don't have the book in front of me to look it up at the moment. Try to get an FFL without a safe. You will never pass inspection. Or just tell them your going to store inventory in a trailer.

You mean like Wal-Mart? A safe is not a requirement to be acquire a FFL.

 

[Robjps]

Why would you think a safe would ever be a requirement for an FFL. Unless you are a hole in the wall shop you can't store your inventory in a safe or multiple safes.

 

[Fargo]

I'm not under any impression.. I firmly believe that the charges could include recklessness endangerment, failure to properly secure a firearm, child endangerment, first degree assault (lesser included offenses), and otherwise if the resulting injury caused a death.

Most of those aren't even the names of criminal offenses in Indiana. I am still curious why you think the police would be the authority on what a person gets charged with?

 

[HnK]

Why would you think a safe would ever be a requirement for an FFL. Unless you are a hole in the wall shop you can't store your inventory in a safe or multiple safes.

Well I don't know. I guess when I went through the process of getting my FFL the inspector told me they wouldn't give me mu license without one. Would you like to enlighten me on how you would be approved without passing an inspection? I guess you could use the " some random dude on ingo said I didn't need one".

 

[Robjps]

Well I don't know. I guess when I went through the process of getting my FFL the inspector told me they wouldn't give me mu license without one. Would you like to enlighten me on how you would be approved without passing an inspection? I guess you could use the " some random dude on ingo said I didn't need one".

Considering the largest FFL in the country does not use a safe your response is completely invalid. Your gun shop appears to have been the kind we all make fun where myths begin at.

 

[HnK]

Considering the largest FFL in the country does not use a safe your response is completely invalid. Your gun shop appears to have been the kind we all make fun where myths begin at.

Lol

 

[KG1]

Well I don't know. I guess when I went through the process of getting my FFL the inspector told me they wouldn't give me mu license without one. Would you like to enlighten me on how you would be approved without passing an inspection? I guess you could use the " some random dude on ingo said I didn't need one".

I am admittedly not an expert on FFL requirements but from what I have been able to determine through a brief google search is that there is no set requirement to having a safe in obtaining an FFL license. It appears to me it is up to an FFL examiners subject opinion on what requirements are determined to be adequate for the storage of firearms in any given circumstance. Some may say that a safe is required and others may say that they just have to be able to be locked away. It all hinges on the subjectivity of the FFL examiner. There is no "official" requirement to have a safe by the Feds.

Here is a link to a discussion on a gunbroker message forum where some of the posters discussed what they were told about firearm storage requirements by their respective ATF examiners.

GunBroker.com Message Forums - FFL gun safe requirements?

Here is another link to a website that provides an FFL consulting service that assists FFL applicants in obtaining an FFL with further inforamtion about understanding FFL requirements. THey state that the Feds will not require you to have a safe or an alarm system. I take that to mean their is no agency wide requirement in all cases and as of yet I have not been able to come up with any official ATF written determination on what constitutes proper firearm storage.

http://www.ffl123.com/requirements-for-ffl

 

[Robjps]

There is no requirement that the building itself should not cover.

 

[17 squirrel]

Most of those aren't even the names of criminal offenses in Indiana. I am still curious why you think the police would be the authority on what a person gets charged with?

Admittedly, these very well may not be the exact names of the applicable statutes here in Indiana. I got my JD with honors at the University of Marland Law School. But I am quite sure that Indiana has similiar criminal statutes and I know that they support charges as I have described. Also in regards to the comment regarding police officers being the authority on charging documents, the officer submits a criminal information and affidavit of supporting facts. At that time he also recommends a list of charges, the ASA or ADA reviews the recommended charges, affidavit and criminal information report for legal sufficiency to support the charges and either agrees, denies or increases charges. Then either an arrest warrent is issued or it is submitted to a grand jury proceeding where an indictment will be handed down or not.

oh, and with full disclosure the above and a few other posts were not written by me ( the squirrel ) they were written by the cute chic that goes for a swim in my bathtub a few nights a week.