Suing the BATFE

[17 squirrel]

Where does my post in any way reference the law? If you honestly believe that legal=responsible, I am sad for you.

It goes right along with personal responsibility...
What keeps people from breaking the law ? ..... Personal responsibility.

 

[Fargo]

It goes right along with personal responsibility...
What keeps people from breaking the law ? ..... Personal responsibility.

Just cause its legal doesn't make it responsible. I would consider donating to profire, but I'm worried they would leave the money out in a thin skinned trailer overnight...

 

[SteveM4A1]

I'm always amused at those who hold the victims of crimes culpable.

Likewise, we can all agree that the individual in that sexy outfit was just asking to be raped anyway.

 

[17 squirrel]

I don't have time to dig out the book but a safe was a requirement to pass inspection and get my FFL. A trailer is not defined as a safe. It's not a complex set of rules to follow.

How about you post the regulation that a ' safe ' is required in order to get a ffl.
And why a trailer that is locked down with key / combination locks is not secure storage.. ?????????

 

[SteveM4A1]

How about you post the regulation that a ' safe ' is required in order to get a ffl.
And why a trailer that is locked down with key / combination locks is not secure storage.. ?????????

Because a criminal can get into it

Oh wait...

 

[17 squirrel]

I'm always amused at those who hold the victims of crimes culpable.

Likewise, we can all agree that the individual in that sexy outfit was just asking to be raped anyway.

It is amazing.

 

[Fargo]

I'm always amused at those who hold the victims of crimes culpable.

Likewise, we can all agree that the individual in that sexy outfit was just asking to be raped anyway.

Mmmm Kay. Comparing commercial theft victims to rape victims is so insulting to anyone who has ever been raped that it disgusts me that anyone on here would ever even imply such a thing.

INGO, where responsibility goes to die.

All you folks who donated, would you consider it responsible of profire to store the money you donated to sue the ATF out in a trailer behind the building overnight?

 

[target64]

Here is what is said concerning secure storage:
18 U.S.C. 921(a)(34)).
(34) The term “secure gun storage or safety device” means—
(A) a device that, when installed on a firearm, is designed to prevent the firearm from being operated without first deactivating the device;
(B) a device incorporated into the design of the firearm that is designed to prevent the operation of the firearm by anyone not having access to the device; or
(C) a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm and that is designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, a combination, or other similar means.

Item "C" could be argued both ways as to if a trailer would meet the definition. But IANAL

 

[17 squirrel]

Mmmm Kay. Comparing commercial theft victims to rape victims is so insulting to anyone who has ever been raped that it disgusts me that anyone on here would ever even imply such a thing.

INGO, where responsibility goes to die.

All you folks who donated, would you consider it responsible of profire to store the money you donated to sue the ATF out in a trailer behind the building overnight?

What would the difference be in leaving it in a trailer or the cash register inside of the shop. Both would be locked and secured.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Mmmm Kay. Comparing commercial theft victims to rape victims is so insulting to anyone who has ever been raped that it disgusts me that anyone on here would ever even imply such a thing.

INGO, where responsibility goes to die.

All you folks who donated, would you consider it responsible of profire to store the money you donated to sue the ATF out in a trailer behind the building overnight?

I'm just using your logic of culpability. Since victims of crime haven't done every (or any?) productive effort to keep crime from happening to them, they are to blame.

Responsibility doesn't die on INGO. Most of us just like to place blame where it belongs.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

Ahhhhh...personal responsibility goes with obeying the law... Since you also know so much about the Federal storage laws in the good old USA,, maybe YOU can post the law that says storing class 3 or any other firearm inside of a locked ( by more than one means ) trailer that a law has been broken.

Where has anyone said that Profire broke the law by leaving the guns in their trailer? I must have missed it. All I've seen are people who have said that it wasn't safe to leave the guns in said trailer. Which it wasn't. Obviously.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

What would the difference be in leaving it in a trailer or the cash register inside of the shop. Both would be locked and secured.

If the trailer was secure, then how did the criminals steal it?

 

[17 squirrel]

Here is what is said concerning secure storage:
18 U.S.C. 921(a)(34)).
(34) The term “secure gun storage or safety device” means—
(A) a device that, when installed on a firearm, is designed to prevent the firearm from being operated without first deactivating the device;
(B) a device incorporated into the design of the firearm that is designed to prevent the operation of the firearm by anyone not having access to the device; or
(C) a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm and that is designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, a combination, or other similar means.

Item "C" could be argued both ways as to if a trailer would meet the definition. But IANAL

How do you think dealers and personal machineguns get to out of town shoots and gun shows ?
How do some people think machine guns get shipped from dealer to dealer ?
Do people think all machine guns are under lock and key when being shipped between dealers ?

 

[17 squirrel]

If the trailer was secure, then how did the criminals steal it?

How do people break into homes that are locked and secure ?,
Locks keep honest people honest silly.. Good try though...

 

[target64]

One could easily argue the act of transportation versus overnight storage. But like I said IANAL and just provided the regulations.

 

[Hkindiana]

My wife was driving through a green light when someone ran their red light and t-boned her car. His insurance company tried to argue that the accident was HER fault because she should have seen that he was running the red light and gotten out of his way!!!

My point is that you can blame the victim all you want for things they COULD have done, or even for things you think they SHOULD have done. But in the end, they are STILL the victim, and the OTHER GUY is still the wrongdoer.

 

[17 squirrel]

Where has anyone said that Profire broke the law by leaving the guns in their trailer? I must have missed it. All I've seen are people who have said that it wasn't safe to leave the guns in said trailer. Which it wasn't. Obviously.

Post #48 & #53

 

[HnK]

How about you post the regulation that a ' safe ' is required in order to get a ffl.
And why a trailer that is locked down with key / combination locks is not secure storage.. ?????????

I don't have the book in front of me to look it up at the moment. Try to get an FFL without a safe. You will never pass inspection. Or just tell them your going to store inventory in a trailer.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

I don't have the book in front of me to look it up at the moment. Try to get an FFL without a safe. You will never pass inspection. Or just tell them your going to store inventory in a trailer.

You're being ridiculous now. He would store inventory in a locked​ trailer. Duh.

 

[17 squirrel]

I don't have the book in front of me to look it up at the moment. Try to get an FFL without a safe. You will never pass inspection. Or just tell them your going to store inventory in a trailer.

Color me silly but***, I believe you are either on a computer or a smart phone with internet access... But lucky for you the law is posted above... Secure storage behind a keyed / combination lock.. Read it and weep mister ffl man.
I believe that trailer was not only locked, also the wheels were locked and the hitch has a lock.. Well within the law....
And again there is no federal statue that says a ffl has to have a safe...