Stopped by Terre Haute PD for OC'ing -- On a Date!

[Joe Williams]

Man, I didn't figure anyone on this site would rather have their firearm confiscated, a fine levied and potentially their LTCH privileges for the state of Indiana removed instead of answering a few honest questions and letting the police do their jobs.

Sadly, I'm all too aware of the fact that there are plenty of people on this site unwilling to stand up for their rights.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Man, I didn't figure anyone on this site would rather have their firearm confiscated, a fine levied and potentially their LTCH privileges for the state of Indiana removed instead of answering a few honest questions and letting the police do their jobs.

I will probably get another neg rep for agreeing with you, but it still seems to me the cops did their job properly, even overlooking an inadvertent violation of local ordinance. There is a proper balance between freedom and responsibility.

 

[IndySSD]

Sadly, I'm all too aware of the fact that there are plenty of people on this site unwilling to stand up for their rights.

Apparently I wasn't aware of the fact that there are so many people on this site who are unwilling to follow the law.

If the town has an ordinance against firearms in parks, then this was actually the cops cutting him a break on violating a town ordinance while performing due diligence in making sure he's not a felon and that his LTCH is valid.

While eternal vigilance by the free man is indeed the price of freedom, do not forget that our LEO must also be vigilant.

I will probably get another neg rep for agreeing with you, but it still seems to me the cops did their job properly, even overlooking an inadvertent violation of local ordinance. There is a proper balance between freedom and responsibility.

Exactly ^^

 

[mk2ja]

Deming Park?

What about it? Nice park. Lived just up the road from it, a block off Ohio where it is still the divided boulevard, for the summer and rode my bike down there many a time. This particular incident was at Fairbanks Park, though, down by the Wabash, while they were having a concert at the amphitheater.

 

[SSGSAD]

I copied this from SE because it's how I feel also

I'm sorry friend, but you are completely wrong. If a LEO sneaks up on me and grabs my gun, how am I to know he's an officer? His stupidity will result in a bad day for at least two people. If he's stupid enough to do something like that, well, he's pretty stupid.

I quoted this, because I know SE, and I feel the same way, I don't
know how I'll react, till I get in that sit., so I hope to never find out...

A word to the wise, do not tap on my gun.....

 

[E5RANGER375]

Justified in hitting the cop? At that, justified in hitting anyone? Are you hearing yourself?

He would have just been reacting to someone trying to grab his weapon. He wouldnt have known its a cop. Anyone who's friends with me or family knows not to grab or touch my weapon when its on, I MAKE IT VERY CLEAR. weapon retention is instinct. so you will just roll over and take it? are you hearing yourself? No one wants to intentionaly hit a cop, but if you dont know its a cop and they are as stupid as this one was then I think they get what they get. Also if i saw a cop beating the crap out of my wife or kid do you think im gonna just sit back and comply? Hell no, Im gonna fight and I dont care the consequences. just because one is a cop doesnt always make all of their actions right or even legal. at the point they cross the line then in my eyes they are no longer a cop. this is all hypothetical, but you get the point.

I see a lot of tough talk via the internet, but in the end you, like most people, would shut your mouth and do what the police officer asked you. Or run the risk of getting tazed or worse.

Oh REALY??? You think so do you? obviously we have never met, but people who know me, will tell you otherwise about me. I STAND for what I believe and I dont compromise my values, beliefs, integrity, loyalty, for no one, and nothing. Taze me, beat me, arrest me, jail me, shoot me, spit on me. it doesnt matter. some people dont bend and dont break like you obviously would. its not in your blood i guess.

Someone made the comment that I would allow the police to come in and search my home. No, I wouldn't. Unless they had a warrant to do so. But in public, you have to obey and respect them. You may not agree with them, but you have to respect them and follow what they tell you. You can file a complaint after the fact if you feel your rights have been trampled on.

I do think you would just bend over and do anything they said or asked. I'll bet $$ that you would let them just walk in your house with no warrant, because you "just wanna help them do their job and have nothing to hide". Its attitudes like that for the reason some cops think they are supream beings and can burn the ants (us) with a magnifying glass. You just make it harder on the rest of us.
And No, I dont have to obey eveything a cop on the street says. nor will I if its not right or unlawfull of them to order such.

If you shoot your mouth off and challenge them, they will win the immediate battle every time and they may win the war in the end. You will end up going to jail or getting beat up over it. Simply not worth it. If you do things the right way, and the civil way, justice typically prevails in the end. You simply have to do things the right way. A knee jerk reaction will just land you in trouble that you don't want or need.

You are right on this. I might not win every battle but I WILL WIN THE WAR! If I go to jail because I stood for what I believed then honestly I will be fine with it. and thats not just internet talk. Yes i have certain knee jerk reactions to some things, but mostly everything I do or say is calculated and thought out. Im not gonna get into an arguement with a cop, im simply just not gonna follow and BS orders he gives me and also i wont be speaking to him. I have the RIGHT to remain silent.

my responses are in green.

 

[E5RANGER375]

The conversation in that thread was about the police officer. You are saying it is acceptable to hit a police officer?

If they see that gun and feel that you may be a threat for whatever reason, they have to protect themselves and everyone else and take it if they deem it necessary in the situation. Too many have been shot by giving someone the benefit of the doubt.

and heres where your misunderstanding of what liberty and freedom means. Your attitude here is the same reason we now have laws like the (un-constitutional) Patriot Act! "ok, ill give up >this much freedom< in order for you to make me feel safe." Thats the same thing the mob and gangs does to business owners, "paid protection" or else. its illegal when they do it, but for some reason people like you turn a blind eye when the govt does it. Right now your in your little bubble and you feel all safe and cozey. One day you might just be on the receiving end of some illegal police action and then we will see if you change your tune. Right now I think your just so happy to be a new American citizen that your have blinders on.

If they were shot by giving someone the bennefit of the doubt then in most cases it was probly lack of training and lack of awareness and complacency. I am very friendly to a lot of people and dont violate their rights, but if they tried to harm me I am always on guard and ready to act. sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesnt, but if I die, it wont be due to lack of training or complacency. I dont feel threatened when i walk up to a fellow gun owner that is OC or CC'ing, and I have less authority than a cop. im just a sheep, lol, I should be terrified. the cops that try and lie and say they feel threatened by legal gun owners who are carrying weapons are just liars and have alterior motives. taking away a legal gun owners weapon and unloading it is the ultimate slap in the face from a cop in my opinion. hes telling me that he doesnt trust me with my weapon but its still ok for him to keep his, even though I probly have more weapons training than he does and skill too. WTF??? I would be very pissed and I would do my best to legaly make hell come down on his ass.

 

[Keith_Indy]

He has good situational awareness and is alert to guarding his weapon.

Well, I would only say in this case, his situational awareness wasn't 100%. Someone came up behind him, and tapped his handgun with a flashlight. That could just as easily been a hand snatching it. If he doesn't have a holster with retention features for OC, that would be my only suggestion.

But, otherwise, I think he did good, and you should be proud of him.

*******

Can someone please make a sticky of all the standard arguments in Concealed Carry vs Open Carry, so we can stop going over the same exact ground in every single one of these threads.

There are several different camps with their own views on what should or shouldn't be done in these situations by both sides. I don't think anyone's views are changed when the arguments become personal.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Ranger, If someone spits on me then...

 

[E5RANGER375]

Ranger, If someone spits on me then...

AMEN BROTHER, AMEN!!!!

 

[ATM]

Can someone please make a sticky of all the standard arguments in Concealed Carry vs Open Carry, so we can stop going over the same exact ground in every single one of these threads.

It wouldn't matter. CC will rarely be bashed and OC will be bashed for the same few myths that have been debunked countless times.

The OC bashers do not fare well in true debate. They tend to drop out of the "discussion" and only chime back in with a +1 when a new guy brings up the same old tired points they seem to love.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/71996-the_open_carry_argument.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/37307-common_oc_cc_threadjack.html

Honestly, if anyone just wants to CC they have my support.
No need to justify it at all.

 

[Keith_Indy]

It wouldn't matter. CC will rarely be bashed and OC will be bashed for the same few myths that have been debunked countless times.

The OC bashers do not fare well in true debate. They tend to drop out of the "discussion" and only chime back in with a +1 when a new guy brings up the same old tired points they seem to love.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/71996-the_open_carry_argument.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/37307-common_oc_cc_threadjack.html

Honestly, if anyone just wants to CC they have my support.
No need to justify it at all.

Perfect, can we get those sticky, and people can concentrate their arguments there...

I'm not going bash anyone that legally carries a gun.

 

[Pilot]

They gotten earn respect, having a badge doesn't mean they deserve my respect, I treat them the same way they treat me, if they are arseholes then I'm an areshole right back, my dad, a former prosecutor, and my "uncles" former LEO's taught me that.

That is the difference between you and I. I give respect to everyone until they prove that they don't deserve my respect. And even then, I won't go out of my way to be disrespectful to them nor do I shoot my mouth off. I am a better man than that. I will just be done with them and walk away.

Your sense of entitlement is one of the reasons this country is in so much trouble. People think they are owed something all the time. No one owes you anything. Respect is merely being a decent human being to others. If they are disrespectful to you, then so be it. Move on and focus your energy on someone else.

Sometimes saying nothing communicates more than any words can.

 

[sj kahr k40]

That is the difference between you and I. I give respect to everyone until they prove that they don't deserve my respect. And even then, I won't go out of my way to be disrespectful to them nor do I shoot my mouth off. I am a better man than that. I will just be done with them and walk away.

Your sense of entitlement is one of the reasons this country is in so much trouble. People think they are owed something all the time. No one owes you anything. Respect is merely being a decent human being to others. If they are disrespectful to you, then so be it. Move on and focus your energy on someone else.

Sometimes saying nothing communicates more than any words can.

I don't think I'm entitled to anything, and you're right no one owes me anything.

One of the reason this country is in trouble is because people like you are not willing to stand up for yourself, you think that LEO's are somehow better then the average person.

 

[VUPDblue]

 

[Pilot]

I don't think I'm entitled to anything, and you're right no one owes me anything.

One of the reason this country is in trouble is because people like you are not willing to stand up for yourself, you think that LEO's are somehow better then the average person.

No, I don't think they are better than the average person. They are just people who have a job as a police officer. And like EVERYONE else, they deserve respect until they prove otherwise. And even if they don't give it to you, you don't need to be the fool who shoot his mouth off. Do you think shooting your mouth off gets your point across? It just adds fuel to the fire.

I do stand up for myself when the need arises. You have gone completely out in left field at this point. Your suppositions are angry attempts on your part to keep your head above water in this discussion. You are sinking quickly.

 

[dross]

No, I don't think they are better than the average person. They are just people who have a job as a police officer. And like EVERYONE else, they deserve respect until they prove otherwise. And even if they don't give it to you, you don't need to be the fool who shoot his mouth off. Do you think shooting your mouth off gets your point across? It just adds fuel to the fire.

I do stand up for myself when the need arises. You have gone completely out in left field at this point. Your suppositions are angry attempts on your part to keep your head above water in this discussion. You are sinking quickly.

Should I continue to show respect to someone who is disrespecting me?

 

[sj kahr k40]

Should I continue to show respect to someone who is disrespecting me?

+1
Dross beat me to it

 

[Pilot]

Should I continue to show respect to someone who is disrespecting me?

Absolutely! Why lower yourself to their level? Making yourself feel like a tough guy and thinking you are teaching someone a lesson does no good. Your words or actions will only fuel the fire and cause more problems. You can't control what someone else does, but you CAN control yourself.

Why become the fool? Why lower yourself to their level? Be the better person.

 

[sj kahr k40]

No, I don't think they are better than the average person. They are just people who have a job as a police officer. And like EVERYONE else, they deserve respect until they prove otherwise. And even if they don't give it to you, you don't need to be the fool who shoot his mouth off. Do you think shooting your mouth off gets your point across? It just adds fuel to the fire.

I do stand up for myself when the need arises. You have gone completely out in left field at this point. Your suppositions are angry attempts on your part to keep your head above water in this discussion. You are sinking quickly.

Left field, huh, did you not write; you have to obey and respect LEO's;

That statement leads me to believe that you would let a LEO walk all over you, I hope that I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

And I never said that I disrespect LEO's, I said I give them the same respect they give me, much as I do for everyone else.

Left field IMO would be assuming that I think I'm entitled to anything in this life.