STOPPED by MALL security guard @ Circle Centre Mall for OC

[Rocket]

Well done. Even if neither party was absolutely correct, you both went home ok and free. With that said. I Always CC, once in a while I OC as well. Very rarely. I Believe you may carry however you like so long as you practice the same way. I prefer to CC because Heaven forbid some BG's show up, I have an element of surprise. Also Were they to come up behind me I would not be putting a target on my back by announcing that I had a gun. If they are serious about their mischief, A OC er is the first one shot be it LEO or Citizen. IMHO

The Few times I have OC is because Of a gut feeling. The presence of an armed person can straighten out unruly and NOT hard core BG's. So go with your gut!

 

[CPT Nervous]

I prefer to CC because Heaven forbid some BG's show up, I have an element of surprise.

 

[CX1]

However, I've given it some thought and would respond that they should show me in writing where the state (or their business policy states in writing...and which they need to have it posted publically) that I need to CC rather than OC on their premises. Put the burden of proof on them...not their words!

Nothing in the trespassing code requires that they have the notification in writing. If the property owner or an agent of the owner requests that you leave (for any reason other then a protected status) and you refuse for it not being in writing you have a very good chance of being removed from the property in handcuffs. The owner is not required to publicly post their policies. A verbal notification is sufficient under the law.

 

[Josh Ward]

I thought at one time there was a list of anti-gun business listed on a thread here?

It would be nice to have a data base spreadsheet that can be up-dated so we can spend our money at gun friendly business. However I must admit that I haven't been to a mall in years.....

Apparently we also need a list of anti gun members......






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[cobber]

Nothing in the trespassing code requires that they have the notification in writing. If the property owner or an agent of the owner requests that you leave (for any reason other then a protected status) and you refuse for it not being in writing you have a very good chance of being removed from the property in handcuffs. The owner is not required to publicly post their policies. A verbal notification is sufficient under the law.

If they ask you to leave, correct. If they ask you to take the gun to the car, or cover it up, that's not exactly the same thing.

 

[mrortega]

I can understand why Simon may want to ban guns from their malls. There was a ND at Eastland Mall in Evansville a couple years ago. I don't think the guy/gal was OCing but somehow managed to screw up. If this has happened at different places they are justifiably jumpy. Beside, their insurance underwriter probably has made it clear that guns are a no no.

I've been there several times in the last year. There are no signs when entering the mall from the J.C. Penny store. I just belt carried and had a loose over shirt. No problems. I'm not there to make a statement but be prepared if something happens.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Nothing in the trespassing code requires that they have the notification in writing. If the property owner or an agent of the owner requests that you leave (for any reason other then a protected status) and you refuse for it not being in writing you have a very good chance of being removed from the property in handcuffs. The owner is not required to publicly post their policies. A verbal notification is sufficient under the law.

For supporting a charge of trespassing in the moment, you are right, but the criminal trespass statute does make provision for preemptory charges of criminal trespassing, if the property owner/proprietor or their agent places a notice on the main entrance in a place likely to come to the notice of the public, then they don't have to confront you for you to already be guilty of criminal trespass.

 

[Rookie]

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE NEGATIVE REP BACK?!?

 

[Rookie]

Two thoughts for you.

1. There is no excuse for open carry in a mall. None.

2. Circle Center recently installed a credit card reader in one exit lane of all garages. In the one attached to the Convention Center, it's the one on the far right to exit onto Georgia St.

Please shut up.

 

[Roadie]

Well done. Even if neither party was absolutely correct, you both went home ok and free. With that said. I Always CC, once in a while I OC as well. Very rarely. I Believe you may carry however you like so long as you practice the same way. I prefer to CC because Heaven forbid some BG's show up, I have an element of surprise. Also Were they to come up behind me I would not be putting a target on my back by announcing that I had a gun. If they are serious about their mischief, A OC er is the first one shot be it LEO or Citizen. IMHO

The Few times I have OC is because Of a gut feeling. The presence of an armed person can straighten out unruly and NOT hard core BG's. So go with your gut!

Sorry, but your opinion has ZERO verifiable basis in fact. Yours is a mantra spread by the anti-OC crowd that is taken as truth, where there is no such truth to be found..

 

[Roadie]

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE NEGATIVE REP BACK?!?

Please shut up.

 

[Josh Ward]

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE NEGATIVE REP BACK?!?

Please shut up.

Plus 1,000,000








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[CPT Nervous]

Notice that Jake46184 has no friends, and has disabled visitor messages. Wonder why?

 

[mrjarrell]

I can understand why Simon may want to ban guns from their malls. There was a ND at Eastland Mall in Evansville a couple years ago. I don't think the guy/gal was OCing but somehow managed to screw up. If this has happened at different places they are justifiably jumpy. Beside, their insurance underwriter probably has made it clear that guns are a no no.

I've been there several times in the last year. There are no signs when entering the mall from the J.C. Penny store. I just belt carried and had a loose over shirt. No problems. I'm not there to make a statement but be prepared if something happens.

I doubt the ND had anything to do with their policy. Simon properties have been victim disarmament zones for at least the last 10 years that I can recall. Probably longer. I just CC and avoid any hassle. Of course I usually print like the devil, so it all evens out.

 

[atvdave]

I can understand why Simon may want to ban guns from their malls. There was a ND at Eastland Mall in Evansville a couple years ago.

Please excuse my ignorance, but whats a ND?

Thanks
Dave

 

[Rookie]

Notice that Jake46184 has no friends, and has disabled visitor messages. Wonder why?

Also notice that he is consistently able to break the rules and get away with it.

 

[Roadie]

For supporting a charge of trespassing in the moment, you are right, but the criminal trespass statute does make provision for preemptory charges of criminal trespassing, if the property owner/proprietor or their agent places a notice on the main entrance in a place likely to come to the notice of the public, then they don't have to confront you for you to already be guilty of criminal trespass.

This has been argued many time here, and IIRC correctly our resident attorneys disagree with you.

The consensus that there is a difference between a sign that says:

..and one that says:

 

[mrjarrell]

Also notice that he is consistently able to break the rules and get away with it.

He walks the line. Until he crosses it there's little that will be done. No forum rule against being a disagreeable butthead.

 

[Kedric]

OP, while I certainly think you handled it properly all things considered (and a major +1 for trying to edumicate the ignorant!), it is also true that the property owner can say he doesn't want folks to carry on their premises. One of the reasons I avoid the mall.

Blart junior was ignorant of the law by his statements. What he should have said was "The owner of this private property has asked that no firearms be carried, please remove it and put it in your vehicle or leave." Then you could have made your decision and gone about your day. There SHOULD be signs posted, of course... but we all know how that goes.

 

[CathyInBlue]

ND = Negligent Discharge a.k.a. Accidental Discharge (AD), but with the proper connotation of bad action on the carrier/owner's part.

Where's the sticky thread with the acronym guide in the first post?

@ Roadie:
That falls to the "reasonable person" standard.