Stop Insulting My Vote (a libertarian rant)

[Phil502]

Well, I do work in a field that competes with foreign labor. I'm a computer programmer. I compete against thousands of people willing to make half my salary. I beat them by being a better employee who does demonstrably better work, and charge a premium for my services because of it. All competition has done is force me to be better at my job, so I don't really see the problem.

But your being good does not save the bottom line and you could still lose your job because some jackass wants the cheap labor.

 

[Fletch]

But your being good does not save the bottom line

It does when the bottom line is dependent on the quality of the work. There are places where this is so, and places where it is not. It's better to be where it is.

you could still lose your job because some jackass wants the cheap labor.

I have lost my job for that reason. I moved half a dozen states away and got a better one. There is always a place for a guy who knows the job better than the rest, especially when you're working in the cash flow.

 

[Phil502]

I still think theres a lot of "better" guys that are not as lucky as you were. (not disputing your expertise)

 

[Fletch]

I still think theres a lot of "better" guys that are not as lucky as you were. (not disputing your expertise)

I wouldn't call it luck. I got up under my own power, said goodbye to everyone I knew, packed up all my crap, and moved halfway across the country. I did it because it was apparent there were no jobs where I was, so I went to where the jobs were.

Most of the time when I hear folks talking about not being able to find a job, I immediately assume they're talking about "within a 1-hour commute of where I presently live". I'm positive there are jobs out there, the question is whether we're willing to do what it takes to get them.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Well, I do work in a field that competes with foreign labor. I'm a computer programmer. I compete against thousands of people willing to make half my salary. I beat them by being a better employee who does demonstrably better work, and charge a premium for my services because of it. All competition has done is force me to be better at my job, so I don't really see the problem.

It is and isn't a quality of workmanship issue , people just want to save money and think they're getting a deal .

When a homeowner gets a quote / estimate , chances are it's gonna be from a American . This person works for a company that will sub the work to someone who is willing to do the work for 1/3 of what the industry accepted standard is . This process is perfectly legal here in IN.

Folks who don't work in , or understand construction don't see what the problem is . Thats ok , years from now when their kids are stealing jobs from your kids , maybe you'll get it . But don't worry , we won't last long enough for that to happen .

 

[rambone]

I wonder what Michelle will wear to the re-inauguration.

 

[spartan933]

I'm always down for a Ménage à trois. Wait, what is this thread about? Oh yeah, 3rd party, yeah, fine, no problem.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Most of the time when I hear folks talking about not being able to find a job, I immediately assume they're talking about "within a 1-hour commute of where I presently live". I'm positive there are jobs out there, the question is whether we're willing to do what it takes to get them.

Up until this Feb. , I worked with men from california and Florida that were here for work . Personally I resent the hell out of a suggestion (by anyone) that I need to turn my world up side down to accommodate those that didn't come here legally and will work for next to nothing .

 

[Smitty506th]

You know it would almost be nice if there were no more republic.... I mean if we all had the chance to vote on every aspect of our government then we wouldn't have anyone to blame but ourselves.... The 2 party system is such a crooked stalemate jumble of BS that sometimes I want to take off my uniform..... Two sides allow them to do more of what they want and let us think that we are having a hand in the way we are governed. No one party is a perfect representation of my views but the two big ones are way off. I will say that if the republicans had kept the people happier then they might have just been elected. You cant blame minority and first time voters being motivated on a juvenile senator with four years of a republican administration that just couldn't get it right...

 

[antsi]

their kids are stealing jobs from your kids , maybe you'll get it

I don't think the current generation of American kids is much interested in work. I see a lot of young men in the hospital where I work. The white kids are, for the most part, puffy video game players and mom's basement dwellers. The Mexican kids come in wearing clothes that show they have been working all day. A lot of them stay up all night to see their baby born, and then go back to work the next morning. I have never seen this scenario with a white kid.

From what I see, it is not Mexicans taking jobs from white boys. It is lazy white boys who don't want to work, and the Mexicans do.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I wasn't thinking of "handouts" , I was thinking more along the lines of stealing work .

Why pay an American $1,200 to lay your tile when you can get a Hecho in mexico to do it for $500 ?

Why pay an American IT person $60,000 when you can sub it out to someone in india for $25,000 ?

That's simply a product of our broken economy. If we had allowed the free market to reign instead of shoving the government into it, then that would have self-regulated. People would compete better for jobs & "Made in the USA" might actually be something we would seek. As it is, I personally steer clear of "Made in the USA" because that typically means it was made by workers who don't care to compete nor do a good job.

Our protectionism certainly isn't securing our place in the world.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Why do you think? There's a whole lot of illegals in jail too, why are they here. A lot of them want to work, sure, I agree, you saying none of them are here for free healthcare and welfare and wic and.......

Huh? did you even read my post before you quoted it? I said that they come here for benefits. Not to work. That's because we give them handouts. If we remove those benefits, then it'll be primarily beneficial immigration. As it is, they come here for all the free stuff & high minimum wages.

Please re-read below...with comprehension this time please.

Ask yourself WHY the immigrants are coming here.








If you answered "because of government handouts", then I don't think you have a firm base from which to argue against The Meach's point*S*. He's not saying that's the only thing he'd change. He would end the reason that the worst & least bright choose to immigrate to the US.

*EDIT*
On second thought, I guess I left some things unsaid, making it ambiguous. Here's a brief explanation:

The Meach's points are all one single package. You can't take a libertarian's viewpoints & pretend we would only implement one of them. To do any single thing w/out the many other changes which would be required would lead to problems.

Example: The Federal Reserve needs to be done away with. However, there are a lot of things which would need to happen in order for this to become reality. If you simply dissolved it, then our financial 'system' would fall apart quickly.

In my opinion, if you believe that most immigrants come here for the primarily for the handouts, then you cannot argue against The Meach's points regarding immigration. This is because a libertarian approach would first remove the handouts which create the situation.

I apologize if I confused.

 

[originalhonkey]

 

[Hoosier8]

Ah yes, the terrible tyranny of limited government.

On a serious note though, in case you weren't paying attention in the fall of 2008, a large bulk of libertarian-minded citizens supported one of your very own Republicans. Unfortunately, you guys wanted a pandering man, who doesn't understand (how do you say? sh!@ about fu!@?) anything, to represent you instead.

Oh, I do enjoy Republican surprise that stick-up-the-arse/political-stances-on-the-winds McCain was beaten in the R-vs-D popularity contest by a black man with the comfortable outward personality of Bill Cosby/Morgan Freeman & with the shining charisma of a rock star who was promising many free things & door prizes.

Yeah...didn't see that coming.

I really like the door prizes line. I really do.

 

[dice dealer]

As I told a co-worker trying to discuss his love of OBAMA with me before the election ..

There are 3 things i try to never discuss with anyone ...

1. Money
2. Politics
3. religion

He asked me why .
I told him because by the time i got threw telling him how wrong he was he would probably never want to Talk to me again .


And I am sure most people feel that way
But i don't try to push my belives off on you and i will be damned if i let you push yours off on me ..



But hey thats why they used to call this AMERICA

 

[Phil502]

That's simply a product of our broken economy. If we had allowed the free market to reign instead of shoving the government into it, then that would have self-regulated. People would compete better for jobs & "Made in the USA" might actually be something we would seek. As it is, I personally steer clear of "Made in the USA" because that typically means it was made by workers who don't care to compete nor do a good job.

Our protectionism certainly isn't securing our place in the world.

Thats a little harsh, Americans typically do a bad job? Come on now, If you did not get the chance to buy a t-shirt for $5.00 because some kid in blablabla gets paid a nickel a day, then more people, our brothers would be working, that's how I see it.

If anything Government did not make a level playing field here for us, all the foreign cars that get in with no fees and we don't get the same in return from them. Real high taxes for the wealthy, it's not like they are all scum, most of them had to earn their money they aint all trust fund babies, they take the risk to put together a business that employs people.

That kind of stuff is Government interaction of the destructive kind. I still think they owe us protection, at least that would be something for our taxes, the free market can't do everything. Instead of throwing our money away like it's nothing to them.

 

[bwframe]

There is a pretty strong group on here that seems very anti-3rd party. And as a libertarian I'm started to get tired of the "they stole votes away from McCain" complaint.

Dear Republicans, I DON'T believe in what you believe in. Sure I agree with you on some of your platform. But i disagree on almost the same amount.

I am for OPEN Immigration and am ANTI-English as the national language.

I am For Personal physical and personal rights, the government has NO RIGHT to tell me what i can put in my body or what I can do with it.

I support a level of government as defined in the United States Constitution.

I believe in the ideas of freedom, property rights, and individual rights.

I want government out of the boardroom AND out of the bedroom.

I want a government that doesn't define moral standards, redistribute wealth, control the economy, and divide people into separate factions along racial, ethnic or religious lines.

I have Deep un-consolable reservations with the Republican Party. Therefore i would Choose relative obscurity rather than betray my true beliefs and vote for the "guy who has the best chance of winning". Stop blaming Us because you couldn't beat Obama on your own.

/rant

You know what? I'm with you! You just keep talking and selling. You have around a year then again 3 to get your message across. In that time you'll need to find some candidates that can contend. I mean real 35-40% of the vote gaining candidates, not 4-5%ers who give the impression of tinfoil hat wearing idealists. You get that done and I'll gladly jump to your camp, supporting it with my $ and vote.

In the mean time, don't be whining about people ragging on you because you threw away your vote.

 

[hornadylnl]

I used to be a "vote for the lesser of two evil" republican until the douche bag McCain got nominated. I voted for Barr. There isn't a pennys worth of difference between McCain and Obama.

 

[The Meach]

wow this bad boy took off. I'm tired and going to bed tho. Some good points have been raised tho and i'd be glad to debate them in the morning.

play nice kids

Edit: oh and when did this become a exclusive POTUS discussion. you guys DO realize that he only runs one branch right?

and here is an idea. this thread had gone in 500 different directions. Give me a list to tackle when i get up. Or else i know someone will post a whiny "you diddn't answer my post" complaint. If you want an answer on my thoughts give me some bullet points people

 

[Marc]

I used to be a "vote for the lesser of two evil" republican until the douche bag McCain got nominated. I voted for Barr. There isn't a pennys worth of difference between McCain and Obama.

i voted for McCain.. atleast he's AMERICAN









i just want America back