St Mary's is NOT gun friendly

[Bunnykid68]

He could have just stepped back and put 10 rounds from his Glock .40... Oh, wrong thread.

LMAO Time for another beer

 

[mrortega]

I can't find Frosty Jr.'s pictures. Where are they?

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

Dang son!! Talk about raising the dead. This thread is ancient.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I can't find Frosty Jr.'s pictures. Where are they?

Page 36, post 356 is the day he came home from the hospital.

 

[Roadie]

Dang son!! Talk about raising the dead. This thread is ancient.

You think raising a 4 month old thread is ancient?? lol I've seen 2+ years threads raised from the dead so a newb could post something like:
"yeah, I agree!"
or
"sweet gun"

 

[mrortega]

You think raising a 4 month old thread is ancient?? lol I've seen 2+ years threads raised from the dead so a newb could post something like:
"yeah, I agree!"
or
"sweet gun"

TF posted pics of his wife and son on another thread and commented that Colt's pics where somewhere on this thread.

 

[Roadie]

TF posted pics of his wife and son on another thread and commented that Colt's pics where somewhere on this thread.

See, you had a valid reason for a thread resurrection, as opposed to someone trying to "get to 50"

 

[brcrbn]

This epic post, which I would not have read if it had not been resurrected (i know i do not have 50 posts and it is not my intention to up my count by posting here), has been the most interesting and educational debate I have had the pleasure(from beginning to end this morning) reading on this forum. I have much to do today but I could not stop reading. Thank you INGO for being an awesome forum.

Regards

 

[rw496]

Because the law states that you must provide your LTCH when a LEO asks. The law clearly states you only have to ID yourself when stopped for an infraction or ordinance violation.

Not exactly. The law states that if you are stopped for an infraction or ordinance violation and do not provide identification you can be charged under that statute. It doesn't say that is the only time you have to provide identification. Second, the law doesn't ever clearly state anything it just depends on what judge is interpreting it and what kind of mood he is in.

 

[rw496]

That situation sounds like it was handled terribly and escalated by the security guards. They could have just politely explained the hospital rules and asked if you would put it in your car. I can't vouch for all LE and I certainly can't vouch for all security guards.

 

[rw496]

just realized how dated this post is...didn't want to head down the disarmed by a cop road again today anyway...back to work.

 

[jgreiner]

St. Mary's hospital in Evansville is where my son is in the NICU (Newborn Intesive Care Unit) and as such, that is where I have been every single day since he was born. Tonight Security aproached me when my wife and I were putting him into his isolate after his feeding and asked if I had a weapon on me. Now, you and I know that a "weapon" could be a lot of things... Anyway I relplied "yes I do and I am licensed to carry, is there a problem?" The security officer (who was not wearing a visible nametag) became very rude and loud and said "you can't have that here and you are breaking the law." I proceeded to explain to him that I was not breaking any law in Indiana by carrying with a license and that I would leave if necessary.

He then told me I could give him the gun or leave, I looked at my wife who was done putting him up and asked her if she was ready and she said she was so I told the guard that I was leaving the building. Then he tried to get my name and I said that I did not have to identify myself and I was not handing over my handgun but was not causing a problem as I was walking towards the door and to the elevators (3rd floor, go figure ) Then an armed guard and an Evansville Police officer walked through the door, the first guard then said that I had to give my name to him, to which I replied, "no I do not, I am not trespassing and I am leaving right now". The police officer did not identify himself and stepped in my way, he said "You have to give me your license, now" I repeated that I did not while they were trying to tell me that it was the law, which I knew it wasn't (Thanks INGO!)

After that I asked if I was free to leave and the Officer said "NO, not until you identify yourself or I will see to it that you are banned form the property and you won't be able to see your son anymore" I was furious and somehow calmly stated that I did not want to be detained anyfurther and I would not answer of his questions. Then he said he needed to see my drivers license and my Permit and repeated his threat. So I showed him both Licenses so he could write my name down and he and the first guard kept talking and asking me questions. He finally handed my little permission slips back and I interrupted him to ask if I was free to go to which he said yes and I left down the elevators and went home.

I have now been on the phone and chewed out the Charge Nurse of the NICU for a very embarrasing and UNECESSARY ordeal, left a message for the head of security and shot out an email to the EPD, all of which will be followed up on Monday morning.

BTW I usually OC everywhere I can, but to avoid any problems like the one I had I have actually been concealing it in an IWB Galco Kingtuk. Tonight I just got a little lazy and was just wearing a Tshirt over it so I am assuming the grip snuck out when I bent over and an Antigun nurse saw it. Most of the nurses there know us just because we have been there for 12 days and they all love my little boy who BTW is named Colt... And have even discussed guns and shooting with several of them and the lead Dr in charge who loved his name and told me the only other one that was as cool as that was named after an Italian shotgun. Anyway... I know, Concealed means CONCEALED! The whole time my wife had her Kel Tec in her purse lol.

Stupid gun fearing idiots. My daughter works ER in a hospital here.....and many of the nurses in the ER carry. The security staff is 70 years old or older, and unarmed. And they get a fair number of rough characters (homeless, gang bangers) through the ER looking for drugs, etc.

 

[mrortega]

See, you had a valid reason for a thread resurrection, as opposed to someone trying to "get to 50"

Shhh. I'm trying to get to 1,000!

 

[indysims]

The cop was there to investigate "a man with a gun". He has the right to ask for an ID. Any court in the states would say that's enough probable cause. To stand there and not answer or refuse to produce a license and/or ID is enough to detain until such information is obtained. He was not on a "fishing trip".

This, in my opinion is "the rub". I have a LTCH issued from the state. I can carry a gun in public (except for the noted places) however I like (OC or CC). I also have a License to operate a motor vehicle from the state, and further more a motorcycle endorsement.
These things seem pretty parallel if you look at them like this: a privilege granted by a governing body, with rules.
However, when I ride my motorcycle down the street no one calls the police to report "a man riding a motorcycle" because it's something the general public accepts as normal and pretty much everyone realizes is legal.
Carrying a gun however does not have that same air of normalcy. A report of "a man carrying a gun" conjures images of Columbine, Virginia Tech, any number of workplace shootings… etc, etc, and frankly some "man with a gun" reports could be just that scenario.
So in both instances you're doing something that your state has granted you the privilege. Man with a gun is no different than man on motorcycle, if he's doing it within the law.

If a state is going to issue the privilege of carrying a gun, then just carrying a gun can't be probable cause... any more than driving a car down the road is probable cause.

 

[Hammerhead]

Not exactly. The law states that if you are stopped for an infraction or ordinance violation and do not provide identification you can be charged under that statute. It doesn't say that is the only time you have to provide identification. Second, the law doesn't ever clearly state anything it just depends on what judge is interpreting it and what kind of mood he is in.

The only other time I'm required to ID myself is if I'm driving my car and have been stopped for...wait for it, an infraction or ordinance violation (a felony stop is a whole 'nother ball of wax). Otherwise, every LEO can go pound sand. I'm walking down the street and am stopped by a LEO asking for my ID, for example, they'd better have a real good reason for me to comply. I am not required by law to carry ID, nor show it upon request in this scenario.

"Am I being detained? Am I free to go?"

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Just an FYI for the new guys that have recently stumbled onto this thread:

lrahm was the cop involved in the hospital and since this thread we have both buried the hatchet and are friends now so there is certainly a happy ending here.

I have also talked to WillyUSMC and while we are not friends we have also come to an understanding so there is no more negativity in this thread anymore and I will leave everything intact for new guys to be able to read and learn from it like many of us have.

Feel free to ask questions or state your opinions about what happened as well.

 

[ATM]

^ Hey, aren't you that zoo guy?

 

[Rookie]

It doesn't say that is the only time you have to provide identification.

Are you saying there are other times you are required?

Got anything to back up your statement? Case law or IC will do just fine.

If anyone is interested, some interesting reading on refusal to identify.

http://aimlessryan.blogspot.com/2011/01/land-of-free-part-i.html

 

[rw496]

Are you saying there are other times you are required?

Got anything to back up your statement? Case law or IC will do just fine.

If anyone is interested, some interesting reading on refusal to identify.

Aimless: Land of the Free, Part I

Yes. I try to stay away from IC codes because they are just a guideline for judges to interpret laws.
During investigative stops the officer can require you to provide ID.
Kellems v. State, 842 NE 2d 352 - Ind: Supreme Court 2006
842 N.E.2d 352 (2006) "Terry stops are limited in scope and purpose. Their purpose "is not to discover evidence of crime, but to allow the officer to pursue his investigation without fear of violence...." Adams, 407 U.S. at 146, 92 S.Ct. 1921. This limited purpose has led the Court to conclude that "a brief stop of a suspicious individual, in order to determine his identity or to maintain the status quo momentarily while obtaining more information, may be most reasonable in light of the facts known to the officer at the time."

That being said, if you refuse can you be charged with Refusal to identify? No. That statute specifically says stopped for an infraction or ordinance violation.​

 

[Rookie]

A terry stop requires RAS. Even then you don't have to provide ID unless accused of an infraction or ordinance violation. Correct?

Greeno vs. State
Starr vs. State