Springfield XDs 9/45 recall

[AngryRooster]

This exactly!
why have everyone send in their guns, if they don't even know how they are going to fix this "problem"?

Because their lawyers told them to. Get the guns off the street by doing this, if you don't then we can be held responsible. Deal with the PR nightmare later, it will cost less than a lawsuit.

 

[squidvt]

I understand both sides. SA is dealing with a nightmare situation with PR. I'm annoyed that they didn't have the fix right away. They also gambled they would have the fix quicker then they did. It bit them in the hard. I would rather have known as soon as I sent it in they didn't have the full fix yet.

Also another thing to think about. Where is SA located? What kind of political environment are they dealing with? How would groups like MDA LOVD to have a firearm AD and harm someone?

Yes there was some legal thoughts on issuing the recall before they had the fix. I'm also willing to bet there are political considerations on issuing the recall early as well.

 

[KG1]

I understand both sides. SA is dealing with a nightmare situation with PR. I'm annoyed that they didn't have the fix right away. They also gambled they would have the fix quicker then they did. It bit them in the hard. I would rather have known as soon as I sent it in they didn't have the full fix yet.

Also another thing to think about. Where is SA located? What kind of political environment are they dealing with? How would groups like MDA LOVD to have a firearm AD and harm someone?

Yes there was some legal thoughts on issuing the recall before they had the fix. I'm also willing to bet there are political considerations on issuing the recall early as well.

OUCH!

 

[wizardfitz]

received an email today with this link
Springfield Armory ReCall Registration

Looks like they're still trying to figure things out.

 

[shibumiseeker]

It would be pretty cool to have a 2 round burst XDS. I will never send mine in and only hope I have a legal 2 round burst model.

Actually, if you have ANY non-registered weapon that is capable of firing more than one round with each pull of the trigger you are violating the law, whether it is due to a defect or intentional design, so if your XDs is double firing it is not a legal 2 round burst.

As far as the guy who made the comparison to a vehicle recall: every time I've ever had a vehicle recalled the manufacturer has either bought the vehicle back (at more than market value in the case of my Tacoma!), or provided me with a loaner vehicle for the duration of the repairs unless it's same-day service, and even then I've gotten shuttle service to and from home/work. If a vehicle manufacturer said "bring your car in for a safety recall, it'll be a short fix" and then came out and said "oh, we don't know what is wrong with it, don't have any parts to fix it, so you can't have it back and we have no idea when it'll be fixed. Have a nice walk home." then if you weren't pissed about that then there's something seriously wrong with you.

 

[M67]

As far as the guy who made the comparison to a vehicle recall: every time I've ever had a vehicle recalled the manufacturer has either bought the vehicle back (at more than market value in the case of my Tacoma!), or provided me with a loaner vehicle for the duration of the repairs unless it's same-day service, and even then I've gotten shuttle service to and from home/work. If a vehicle manufacturer said "bring your car in for a safety recall, it'll be a short fix" and then came out and said "oh, we don't know what is wrong with it, don't have any parts to fix it, so you can't have it back and we have no idea when it'll be fixed. Have a nice walk home." then if you weren't pissed about that then there's something seriously wrong with you.

Well would you rather be driving around in something that is potentially unsafe and could harm you or others? Would it make people feel better if Springfield bought up the rest of the Jennings and Davis in existence and gave them to people for loaner guns?

Maybe the vehicle comparison was off, but the point is, recalls do happen and they're incontinent but it's not the end of the world. I had to send in a Ruger SP101 in about 9 months ago because if shot past 10 yards, the point of impact would be about 3 feet high. They had the thing for a month or a little over before I got a phone call. I didn't bother them and nag to someone who has no control over the fixing of the actual problem.

Someone made the comment about how customers are the ones who keep gun manufacturers going and handling of this recall is swaying people's views on Springfield. How many gun owners know about or remember when Bill Ruger sold out the American people saying that there is no reason owning high capacity magazines? Numerous reports of Smith and Wesson selling the people out. People swear up and down over Colt quality but you think that since your Anaconda started light striking on you that Colt will fix a FACTORY issue for free? Hell no, they charge you for something that should have been done right in the first place. How many recalls have been done on the TC Ventures now? 2? 3? I have yet to see threads about those and I highly doubt TC communicated worth a damn because they can't even thread both ends of the ramrods on their muzzleloaders now. CZ recently had a recall on some of their rifles with the set trigger, nothing.

Springfield is concerned there is an issue and they don't want anyone to get hurt. It's better to do a recall then figure out how to fix it, then waste time to try and come up with a plan while someone may end up getting hurt, or getting in trouble because their pistol doubles on them routinely.

Springfield will make it right, people just need to be patient. It's not the end of the world. Your XDS isn't going to be a Caracal.

 

[AngryRooster]

It really doesn't matter whether it's a firearm, a car, or a $5 electronic part. When a company finds something wrong with their product and decides to issue a recall for that item, YOU DON'T LIE TO AND MANIPULATE YOUR CUSTOMERS! Not that hard really.

The lack of respect and good faith toward customers these days is astounding. The simplest items are now vacuum packed, armor plated in unbreakable blister packs, locked on racks or pegs, sometimes made as difficult for the customer to find and buy the product as possible. We can't buy simple effective cold medicine without being asked for our papers and treated like a criminal. All because of the few suck bags out there that take advantage. Now we have gun manufacturers deliberately lying to their customers. I realize all businesses are there to make a profit. Some businesses exist because of interest in the product, passion of the owner, etc in addition to making a profit. I count firearm makers and dealers in this category and hold them to a higher standard when dealing with their customers over a place that makes and sells items like phones, radios, pet supplies, toys, etc. You don't start a custom hot rod shop if you don't like the product. Same thing with guns.

 

[AngryRooster]

Well would you rather be driving around in something that is potentially unsafe and could harm you or others? Would it make people feel better if Springfield bought up the rest of the Jennings and Davis in existence and gave them to people for loaner guns?

Maybe the vehicle comparison was off, but the point is, recalls do happen and they're incontinent but it's not the end of the world. I had to send in a Ruger SP101 in about 9 months ago because if shot past 10 yards, the point of impact would be about 3 feet high. They had the thing for a month or a little over before I got a phone call. I didn't bother them and nag to someone who has no control over the fixing of the actual problem.

Someone made the comment about how customers are the ones who keep gun manufacturers going and handling of this recall is swaying people's views on Springfield. How many gun owners know about or remember when Bill Ruger sold out the American people saying that there is no reason owning high capacity magazines? Numerous reports of Smith and Wesson selling the people out. People swear up and down over Colt quality but you think that since your Anaconda started light striking on you that Colt will fix a FACTORY issue for free? Hell no, they charge you for something that should have been done right in the first place. How many recalls have been done on the TC Ventures now? 2? 3? I have yet to see threads about those and I highly doubt TC communicated worth a damn because they can't even thread both ends of the ramrods on their muzzleloaders now. CZ recently had a recall on some of their rifles with the set trigger, nothing.

Springfield is concerned there is an issue and they don't want anyone to get hurt. It's better to do a recall then figure out how to fix it, then waste time to try and come up with a plan while someone may end up getting hurt, or getting in trouble because their pistol doubles on them routinely.

Springfield will make it right, people just need to be patient. It's not the end of the world. Your XDS isn't going to be a Caracal.

You're missing the entire point. Yes mistakes happen, things fail, items get recalled. It's how the company deals with these things that define the company. You had a problem with your individual Ruger, not a blanket recall like this. You sent it in for a problem YOU knew about. They had to test it, find the problem then fix it. That's not what happened here. You said they had it for a little over a month. Springfield has had my XDS for over a month as well. They still have no idea what is wrong or what to do about it, even though they said they did at the start of all this then later came out and admitted they lied. Big difference.

Some of us do remember the other things you mentioned, and much more. This is what I was talking about in my above post about holding firearm companies and dealers to a higher standard. If Apple changes the user interface of the ipood and you don't like it then that's generally a personal thing. You didn't like the design change, it's not seen as a betrayal to the customer base. Unlike what Springfield has done to it's customers here. Same applies to gun manufacturers, they change a design it's simple business, When they lie to us, refuse to return our guns, refuse to communicate with their customers then it becomes a different story. Gun owners are the ones that buy guns. I don't really like Apple and don't listen to music either, but I've bought Ipoods as gifts for people. If you're opposed to guns then you don't buy them for any reason, so who's left to buy them? Gun owners.

Until Colt can find out what's causing the light strikes you mention they have no idea what the problem is. Is it a worn out or defective spring or something else? Does it affect every one of them made of just one? Not really the same thing.

It sounds like you've has some bad experiences with products in the past. If you're this upset at TC for something they've done how likely are you to purchase from them again in the future? If not then what's different from your bad experiences that made you not want to deal with a company again compared to our experiences with Springfield?

 

[AngryRooster]

Here is the link to the GunTalk show with Springfield.

Guntalk link, click on the Pod button.
guntalk's Podcast : Guntalk 2013-10-06 Part C


Direct link to the mp3
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/8/b/2/8b2...81120323&hwt=a9304efa98c73a3696613e9a2ef4b0ec

 

[M67]

You're missing the entire point. Yes mistakes happen, things fail, items get recalled. It's how the company deals with these things that define the company. You had a problem with your individual Ruger, not a blanket recall like this. You sent it in for a problem YOU knew about. They had to test it, find the problem then fix it. That's not what happened here. You said they had it for a little over a month. Springfield has had my XDS for over a month as well. They still have no idea what is wrong or what to do about it, even though they said they did at the start of all this then later came out and admitted they lied. Big difference.

Some of us do remember the other things you mentioned, and much more. This is what I was talking about in my above post about holding firearm companies and dealers to a higher standard. If Apple changes the user interface of the ipood and you don't like it then that's generally a personal thing. You didn't like the design change, it's not seen as a betrayal to the customer base. Unlike what Springfield has done to it's customers here. Same applies to gun manufacturers, they change a design it's simple business, When they lie to us, refuse to return our guns, refuse to communicate with their customers then it becomes a different story. Gun owners are the ones that buy guns. I don't really like Apple and don't listen to music either, but I've bought Ipoods as gifts for people. If you're opposed to guns then you don't buy them for any reason, so who's left to buy them? Gun owners.

Until Colt can find out what's causing the light strikes you mention they have no idea what the problem is. Is it a worn out or defective spring or something else? Does it affect every one of them made of just one? Not really the same thing.

It sounds like you've has some bad experiences with products in the past. If you're this upset at TC for something they've done how likely are you to purchase from them again in the future? If not then what's different from your bad experiences that made you not want to deal with a company again compared to our experiences with Springfield?

You know why they haven't found a fix yet? Because personally I think the ONE firearm in however many thousands of pistols they produced, had an issue. It was probably with a reload where the primer wasn't seated fully or the striker wasn't quite up to spec. I don't think the recall was necessary, but Springfield did. Yes, they lied to customers that they had a fix in mind. But they still voluntarily pulled their product from the market before someone got hurt. They felt it was a safety issue, hell here on INGO the 4 "rules" are blasted in every thread. It's about safety.

The days of gun companies bending over backwards for customers I hate to say is probably over (with the slight exception of reloading component companies). They'll sell a product no matter what. It's like people getting upset over Dicks for pulling ARs after the Newtown shooting. Yes, some people stopped shopping there. But some just don't care, they look for the "best price". Hell Springfield moved all production of their 1911s to the USA over quality control with the Brazilian mades, you don't hear them getting credit about that.

As for my Ruger, actually it took some work on my part to get them to replace it for free. They assumed needing a new crane, cylinder, and barrel was my fault since it was an older style and they didn't support that style anymore.

And Colt knows damn well of their problems, as many people do. They use thin transfer bars and "prissy" mechanics. You don't hear many people bad mouthing Colt Pythons and Anacondas because they're collectible and because of the "Colt" name. Truth be told, Colt hasn't been Colt in 30 years, same as Smith and Ruger. I can't tell you how many people have locked up Colts because they put heavy handloads through them that a smith or Ruger would eat all day every day.

And I personally have not had a truly bad experience myself. Worst one was my Ruger. But if I ever send Kimber my Custom II, they'll charge me to work on it because I gave it a trigger job and I polished the feed ramp. Even if a qualified gunsmith works on a Kimber now (which has been and I've been tought by one), you void the warranty because Kimber's "professionals" didn't touch it themselves. My Hi Power isn't probably going to be warrantied because the mag safety has been taken out and I gave it a 4 pound trigger job. I adjusted the safety stiffness on my Savage MK II FV-SR and done so much work to my Buckmark that half the parts aren't even Browning.

I don't have personal experience with my own guns, but I've seen it happen too many times to count. The "comradery" that gun manufs. and customers had are long gone. Same with $10 bricks of 22lr and $150 cases of 5.56. Times change. Companies change. There's a reason why guns aren't a work of art anymore, they've lost their beauty and character. They're warning label, Hillary Hole, magazine safety, loaded chamber indicator, frame lock infested pieces of metal. They're mass produced products made by companies trying their best to make money with a product that just works.

In the end, Springfield recalled a product they felt unsafe. Just be patient.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Well would you rather be driving around in something that is potentially unsafe and could harm you or others? Would it make people feel better if Springfield bought up the rest of the Jennings and Davis in existence and gave them to people for loaner guns?

I would feel better if Springfield at least offered customers the option of refunding the purchase price, a credit towards another Springfield product, or waiting an indefinite time. As it is now we have zero choice and zero option other than suing, which is isn't a realistic option. You keep blathering on about being patient, well, I am a VERY patient person. I have often waited months or years for something I wanted, putting away a few bucks at a time or waiting for something to become available. I was willing to wait a month even though I thought it was an overly long period of time for what should have essentially been an easy fix. We were led to believe the fix was ready and it was just a matter of doing the work. But this is bad business practice, very bad business practice, and it is not about patience at this point, it's about the company acting in what is very close to criminal fraud. I speak as a business owner who dealt with making things right for my customers when there was a problem. Even if the customer was being unreasonable I tried to make sure it was made right, and in this case, the customer's expectations are very reasonable. It is also very reasonable to voice our displeasure at this poor business practice, so you telling everyone to be patient isn't really apropos, or helpful as this isn't a lynch mob or a witch hunt.

 

[ilikeguns]

You know why they haven't found a fix yet? Because personally I think the ONE firearm in however many thousands of pistols they produced, had an issue. It was probably with a reload where the primer wasn't seated fully or the striker wasn't quite up to spec. I don't think the recall was necessary, but Springfield did. Yes, they lied to customers that they had a fix in mind. But they still voluntarily pulled their product from the market before someone got hurt. They felt it was a safety issue, hell here on INGO the 4 "rules" are blasted in every thread. It's about safety.

The days of gun companies bending over backwards for customers I hate to say is probably over (with the slight exception of reloading component companies). They'll sell a product no matter what. It's like people getting upset over Dicks for pulling ARs after the Newtown shooting. Yes, some people stopped shopping there. But some just don't care, they look for the "best price". Hell Springfield moved all production of their 1911s to the USA over quality control with the Brazilian mades, you don't hear them getting credit about that.

As for my Ruger, actually it took some work on my part to get them to replace it for free. They assumed needing a new crane, cylinder, and barrel was my fault since it was an older style and they didn't support that style anymore.

And Colt knows damn well of their problems, as many people do. They use thin transfer bars and "prissy" mechanics. You don't hear many people bad mouthing Colt Pythons and Anacondas because they're collectible and because of the "Colt" name. Truth be told, Colt hasn't been Colt in 30 years, same as Smith and Ruger. I can't tell you how many people have locked up Colts because they put heavy handloads through them that a smith or Ruger would eat all day every day.

And I personally have not had a truly bad experience myself. Worst one was my Ruger. But if I ever send Kimber my Custom II, they'll charge me to work on it because I gave it a trigger job and I polished the feed ramp. Even if a qualified gunsmith works on a Kimber now (which has been and I've been tought by one), you void the warranty because Kimber's "professionals" didn't touch it themselves. My Hi Power isn't probably going to be warrantied because the mag safety has been taken out and I gave it a 4 pound trigger job. I adjusted the safety stiffness on my Savage MK II FV-SR and done so much work to my Buckmark that half the parts aren't even Browning.

I don't have personal experience with my own guns, but I've seen it happen too many times to count. The "comradery" that gun manufs. and customers had are long gone. Same with $10 bricks of 22lr and $150 cases of 5.56. Times change. Companies change. There's a reason why guns aren't a work of art anymore, they've lost their beauty and character. They're warning label, Hillary Hole, magazine safety, loaded chamber indicator, frame lock infested pieces of metal. They're mass produced products made by companies trying their best to make money with a product that just works.

In the end, Springfield recalled a product they felt unsafe. Just be patient.

Keep trying....Maybe you will eventually find an excuse fir them that people will buy. As for me, you want to lie to me and treat me like I'm stupid to CYOA, you Don't need my money. If you are so used to being treated like crap that you think its okay,I think you should change who you are are hanging out with and doing business with.

 

[ssmith512]

Have to say I am one of the disappointed ones. I immediately shipped my gun to SA, thinking the fix was in place and I would be without my EDC for probably 4 weeks. Then after 4 weeks I get an email saying they havent even started to fix A SINGLE gun. Disappointed, frustrated, upset. So at BEST, I am at least another 6 weeks out before I get my EDC back. Yea, this sucks. I purchased that gun to be my EDC in July. Being "without" is a major bummer to say the least.

 

[Leggdpms]

I imagine it will have to be shipped to a ffl

 

[shibumiseeker]

I imagine it will have to be shipped to a ffl

You imagine wrong.

 

[stesco]

I imagine it will have to be shipped to a ffl

Nope. Shipped directly back to you.

Springfield Armory ReCall Registration

 

[jwh20]

I'm siding with Springfield on this. As remote as the chance of a malfunction causing the gun to fire unexpectedly, the stakes are really high. I'd rather err on the side of safety and be without it than to have it go off on its own and kill or injure someone.

Agreed, they could have admitted up-front that they didn't have a workable fix in place, but I suspect that would have put a damper on folks sending their guns in. Yes, it's a CYA on their part but imagine what your life would be like if your XDs had been one that malfunctioned.

 

[AngryRooster]

I'm siding with Springfield on this. As remote as the chance of a malfunction causing the gun to fire unexpectedly, the stakes are really high. I'd rather err on the side of safety and be without it than to have it go off on its own and kill or injure someone.

Agreed, they could have admitted up-front that they didn't have a workable fix in place, but I suspect that would have put a damper on folks sending their guns in. Yes, it's a CYA on their part but imagine what your life would be like if your XDs had been one that malfunctioned.

So then it's okay to lie, deceive and not trust your customers as long as the company gets what they want? Don't think so.

 

[KG1]

So then it's okay to lie, deceive and not trust your customers as long as the company gets what they want? Don't think so.

"WE had to lie to you so you would send in your guns to cover our asses." "So WE made out like WE had a solution all ready to go and thus WE would have your firearms back to you withing 4 weeks."

Fail.

 

[ilikeguns]

They just updated the FAQ again. Basically they are very close, blah blah blah, and expect good news Friday. Pretty much what they said last Friday.