So the drug addict 13 year old next door has a gun...

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  • Magnum

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jun 27, 2011
    271
    18
    North Indy
    Or one better:

    mycase.in.gov

    Lists all civil and criminal cases. (if the county "supports" mycase)

    This. Basically you need to assess how strong of a case you can make to law enforcement and how anonymous you can remain to your criminal neighbors. There is such a thing as anonymous tips. However, should photographic evidence be shown to your neighbors, and they recognize that the point of view is from your property, then you have a problem. Even so, once criminals are arrested I think your odds of having to worry about them decrease, contrary to your natural concern that they will retaliate. Retaliation takes effort. Planning, committment, investment- things these people lack to begin with. Once they are sitting in handcuffs getting dragged into court and serving time, they're preoccupied with other things. For one, they are probably using drugs, which means they have an ongoing motivation to obtain drugs. This is a drain on their resources of time and money. Next, they probably have people with whom they care about maintaining contact, and sharing time with. More time and money spent on that. They will have all kinds of financial problems to deal with if/when they get out, which is again going to reduce the time and money they have to spend coming after you. Survival for poor people is hard enough, but it's even harder when they are addicts who are lazy.

    Hopefully the owner of that firearm reported it stolen. That would drive the nail in the coffin for that 13 year old, although his pops may take the heat for him if it is simply found "in the house." Being 13 he may not get as lengthy a sentence as if he were an adult, but still, it isn't going to be pretty if he winds up confessing he stole a weapon. If the dad is the violent sociopath who is killing animals then maybe the son is less the one to worry about anyway. To quote GOB from Arrested Development, "Under 18...walks out clean!" is unfortunately sometimes far too accurate. I knew kids in high school who got arrested for things they should have served time for but instead they received a slap on the wrist. This is a possibility, but remember the father is a straight up drug dealer. At any given time there is probably a sufficient amount of drugs in the house to get a possession with intent to distribute charge at a minimum. Hopefully a lawyer could chime in on the sentence he is looking at, but use mycase to look up his record. If he already has a rap sheet... I say go for it. He won't be a problem again anytime soon if it is something harder than pot.

    As for your parents' say in this, ultimately you are an adult. I'm not saying not to respect them, but in one sense 18 is just a number. You conduct yourself as an adult on this forum and as such I know you are thinking long term as to the consequences of your decisions. There is the very responsible concern that harm could come to your family by taking action against them, and you want to avoid conflict. Of course you do, you're the good guy here and you want a positive outcome. At the same time, you also don't want a stray bullet to come through the wall because Mr. Meth Dealer's 13 year old son discharged his 9mm through his wall, and then through yours, and an ambulance shows up for someone who lives in your house. Or, they could come over and steal from you some more when they're having a slow week peddling smack. They could decide you looked at them wrong like you might narc and then they kill your dog to send a message. I don't know these people so who knows, but you have already described sociopathic and violent behavior. You're also looking the other way on criminal affairs that are perpetuating a problem in your community. I'm sure you feel conflicted about that and you've already thought this through a lot. What I am saying to you here is don't be afraid to take action. If anonymity + action is the path you would like to take, then devise the most elaborate plan you can and carry it out. Use your smart phone or ipod or whatever to record this kid running his mouth. Get all the blabbing of his you can saved as an audio file. Take pics of these cars' license plates as they come and go (but be careful not to be spotted). Put together an "evidence package" with a $10 USB thumb drive and a professionally typed letter and sign it "A concerned citizen speaking on behalf of his scared community." Identify this guy by name, describe the gun (make/model), specify the date the dog was killed and whose it was, obviously the address of this house, the type of drugs you think they may be dealing- details will sell this. Mail it to the IMPD narcotics task force and voila, your neighbors will have a bad day when the police get around to looking into it.
    I would be as thorough as possible though. Particularly detail the sociopathic behavior- trespassing, stealing, unscrewing light bulbs to mask their activity, killing animals, waving around guns in the back yard, etc.
    Will these people get off the hook and then try to come kill you or your family? Statistically, it is very unlikely. It is a tough balancing act though... a witness testifying against them may earn them a much more serious sentence, while doing it anonymously may not yield the same results. At the same time, that testimony could put you on their radar when you would have otherwise been fine.
    Maybe crimestoppers is the way to go. Just say that you have repeated watched drug deals happen, money being exchanged for drugs at 123 Criminal Way and that should be enough to get a knock on their door. I wonder if crimestoppers is able to obtain warrants so that they can show up and surprise them, rather than investigators talking to them and providing room for them to clean house before they ever get searched.

    Well I did some reading about crimestoppers, here is the page, read it and see how you feel about it but I am leaning towards this:

    Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana

    Okay man, here is the actual submission form, you can submit it online:

    https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtips.aspx?AgencyID=655&DSID=655

    What i suggest though is that you discuss this with your parents. Communicate to them that you are very concerned and that you feel that as a family you have a moral obligation to do this, especially since there is no threat to you if the tips provided are so non-specific that the dealers would never know it was you specifically. I am fairly certain that in all criminal trials a person charged with a crime has a right to see the evidence against them. That being the case, every bit of your submission may be viewed by them at some point. The trick is to write it in such a way that it could be any of your neighbors and they would never be able to tell. Be careful not to say anything that would suggest that it must be you.
    Doing it that way, they may have their suspicions as to who it was, but they will never know. And they won't risk a life sentence (killing you guys) if they aren't positive it was you. Do whatever you think is best, but there are many options here ranging from a coordinated neighborhood effort to make their life of crime difficult, all the way up to narcing on them and taking the witness stand against them. The more moderate option is crimestoppers.
    Just remember...

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    -Edmund Burke

    Good luck, and props for coming to the community here with this problem for advice. :yesway:
     

    mike8170

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 18, 2008
    1,880
    63
    Hiding from reality
    This. Basically you need to assess how strong of a case you can make to law enforcement and how anonymous you can remain to your criminal neighbors. There is such a thing as anonymous tips. However, should photographic evidence be shown to your neighbors, and they recognize that the point of view is from your property, then you have a problem. Even so, once criminals are arrested I think your odds of having to worry about them decrease, contrary to your natural concern that they will retaliate. Retaliation takes effort. Planning, committment, investment- things these people lack to begin with. Once they are sitting in handcuffs getting dragged into court and serving time, they're preoccupied with other things. For one, they are probably using drugs, which means they have an ongoing motivation to obtain drugs. This is a drain on their resources of time and money. Next, they probably have people with whom they care about maintaining contact, and sharing time with. More time and money spent on that. They will have all kinds of financial problems to deal with if/when they get out, which is again going to reduce the time and money they have to spend coming after you. Survival for poor people is hard enough, but it's even harder when they are addicts who are lazy.

    Hopefully the owner of that firearm reported it stolen. That would drive the nail in the coffin for that 13 year old, although his pops may take the heat for him if it is simply found "in the house." Being 13 he may not get as lengthy a sentence as if he were an adult, but still, it isn't going to be pretty if he winds up confessing he stole a weapon. If the dad is the violent sociopath who is killing animals then maybe the son is less the one to worry about anyway. To quote GOB from Arrested Development, "Under 18...walks out clean!" is unfortunately sometimes far too accurate. I knew kids in high school who got arrested for things they should have served time for but instead they received a slap on the wrist. This is a possibility, but remember the father is a straight up drug dealer. At any given time there is probably a sufficient amount of drugs in the house to get a possession with intent to distribute charge at a minimum. Hopefully a lawyer could chime in on the sentence he is looking at, but use mycase to look up his record. If he already has a rap sheet... I say go for it. He won't be a problem again anytime soon if it is something harder than pot.

    As for your parents' say in this, ultimately you are an adult. I'm not saying not to respect them, but in one sense 18 is just a number. You conduct yourself as an adult on this forum and as such I know you are thinking long term as to the consequences of your decisions. There is the very responsible concern that harm could come to your family by taking action against them, and you want to avoid conflict. Of course you do, you're the good guy here and you want a positive outcome. At the same time, you also don't want a stray bullet to come through the wall because Mr. Meth Dealer's 13 year old son discharged his 9mm through his wall, and then through yours, and an ambulance shows up for someone who lives in your house. Or, they could come over and steal from you some more when they're having a slow week peddling smack. They could decide you looked at them wrong like you might narc and then they kill your dog to send a message. I don't know these people so who knows, but you have already described sociopathic and violent behavior. You're also looking the other way on criminal affairs that are perpetuating a problem in your community. I'm sure you feel conflicted about that and you've already thought this through a lot. What I am saying to you here is don't be afraid to take action. If anonymity + action is the path you would like to take, then devise the most elaborate plan you can and carry it out. Use your smart phone or ipod or whatever to record this kid running his mouth. Get all the blabbing of his you can saved as an audio file. Take pics of these cars' license plates as they come and go (but be careful not to be spotted). Put together an "evidence package" with a $10 USB thumb drive and a professionally typed letter and sign it "A concerned citizen speaking on behalf of his scared community." Identify this guy by name, describe the gun (make/model), specify the date the dog was killed and whose it was, obviously the address of this house, the type of drugs you think they may be dealing- details will sell this. Mail it to the IMPD narcotics task force and voila, your neighbors will have a bad day when the police get around to looking into it.
    I would be as thorough as possible though. Particularly detail the sociopathic behavior- trespassing, stealing, unscrewing light bulbs to mask their activity, killing animals, waving around guns in the back yard, etc.
    Will these people get off the hook and then try to come kill you or your family? Statistically, it is very unlikely. It is a tough balancing act though... a witness testifying against them may earn them a much more serious sentence, while doing it anonymously may not yield the same results. At the same time, that testimony could put you on their radar when you would have otherwise been fine.
    Maybe crimestoppers is the way to go. Just say that you have repeated watched drug deals happen, money being exchanged for drugs at 123 Criminal Way and that should be enough to get a knock on their door. I wonder if crimestoppers is able to obtain warrants so that they can show up and surprise them, rather than investigators talking to them and providing room for them to clean house before they ever get searched.

    Well I did some reading about crimestoppers, here is the page, read it and see how you feel about it but I am leaning towards this:

    Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana

    Okay man, here is the actual submission form, you can submit it online:

    https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtips.aspx?AgencyID=655&DSID=655

    What i suggest though is that you discuss this with your parents. Communicate to them that you are very concerned and that you feel that as a family you have a moral obligation to do this, especially since there is no threat to you if the tips provided are so non-specific that the dealers would never know it was you specifically. I am fairly certain that in all criminal trials a person charged with a crime has a right to see the evidence against them. That being the case, every bit of your submission may be viewed by them at some point. The trick is to write it in such a way that it could be any of your neighbors and they would never be able to tell. Be careful not to say anything that would suggest that it must be you.
    Doing it that way, they may have their suspicions as to who it was, but they will never know. And they won't risk a life sentence (killing you guys) if they aren't positive it was you. Do whatever you think is best, but there are many options here ranging from a coordinated neighborhood effort to make their life of crime difficult, all the way up to narcing on them and taking the witness stand against them. The more moderate option is crimestoppers.
    Just remember...

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    -Edmund Burke

    Good luck, and props for coming to the community here with this problem for advice. :yesway:

    Wow, this is a lot. Like I said, just beat someones ass. Do you really think there are any crack-houses around me? There is a reason for that.
     

    Magnum

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jun 27, 2011
    271
    18
    North Indy
    Wow, this is a lot. Like I said, just beat someones ass. Do you really think there are any crack-houses around me? There is a reason for that.

    Wow, best advice I've ever heard on INGO. This minor should engage in an attempt at vigilante justice through physical violence with armed drug dealers who live next door. A high schooler vs. a crack house. Gee, if this were a movie it would have Macaulay Culkan, Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern in it. Mosinguy would outwit them with cleverly placed thumb tacks, a blow torch to the head, a hot iron to the face, a swinging paint can and a Red Ryder BB gun.

    Let's call it "Home Alone 4: Takin' Back The Hood." Here's a spoiler on the ending- Mosinguy is in the hospital because he listened to a guy on the internet.
     

    Mosinguy

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Feb 27, 2011
    4,567
    48
    North Dakota soon...
    Wow, best advice I've ever heard on INGO. This minor should engage in an attempt at vigilante justice through physical violence with armed drug dealers who live next door. A high schooler vs. a crack house. Gee, if this were a movie it would have Macaulay Culkan, Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern in it. Mosinguy would outwit them with cleverly placed thumb tacks, a blow torch to the head, a hot iron to the face, a swinging paint can and a Red Ryder BB gun.

    Let's call it "Home Alone 4: Takin' Back The Hood." Here's a spoiler on the ending- Mosinguy is in the hospital morgue because he listened to a guy on the internet.

    FTFY
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

    Super Moderator
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 22, 2011
    52,060
    113
    Mitchell
    Where are the usual Libertarian stalwarts? There's surely some mind your business/what people do on their own property/this is why drugs ought to be legalized wisdom to impart.
     

    Magnum

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jun 27, 2011
    271
    18
    North Indy
    Where are the usual Libertarian stalwarts? There's surely some mind your business/what people do on their own property/this is why drugs ought to be legalized wisdom to impart.

    I almost took that position (normally I would), but here is what I think about this particular situation. These guys aren't just using drugs, they are distributing them. That isn't the victimless crime of lighting up some hash in your basement, that's living a scumbag life of profiting on other people's substance abuse problems. Maybe I'm wrong and all of his customers are doctors and lawyers but most likely he is supplying a few people here and there who turn to crime to support their habit.

    The Libertarian stance is leave everybody alone as long as they aren't hurting/endangering anybody. This kid is being negligent with a firearm though, so that's #2. #3 is these d-bags are messing with their neighbors stuff and killing animals, trying to intimidate their neighbors, that sort of thing. So once it goes to that level, I'm doing being passive. If they were just using drugs recreationally inside their own home, I wouldn't even dream of trying to get them busted.
     

    bigus_D

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Dec 5, 2008
    2,063
    38
    Country Side
    Where are the usual Libertarian stalwarts? There's surely some mind your business/what people do on their own property/this is why drugs ought to be legalized wisdom to impart.

    This kid's parents aren't concerned. The neighbors probably aren't as bad as this kid's exaggerated stories make it sound. Chances are, if he just minds his own business, he wouldn't have any more problems with them.

    My advise, mind your own damn business!

    If you really think you can prove something against them, then call the cops. Just be ready to deal with the repercussions and retaliation. Not action is without consequence.
     
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 5, 2008
    1,266
    129
    Terre Haute
    So the drug addict 13 year old next door has a gun... What can I do about it? He likes to take it outside with his friends and shows it off. I wouldn't care if I didn't already know these people and how the whole family does drugs and makes life for everyone in the neighborhood miserable (the boy screams profanities outside to see who'll yell at him so he can threaten them, he messes up gardens, destroys house lights, the dad and his drug friends will unscrew the neighbor's yard lights at night when they do drug deals outside his house, etc.). What can the police do about it? And how do I leave a tip anonymously? I don't need/want to start some sort of neighbor war especially when the family next door will go as far as poisoning our dogs for telling the kid to stay out of the yard.

    Is this ONE issue or multiple issues?

    If it is multiple issues that you have with your neighbors and their chosen lifestyle, I add my voice to those already saying follow the law and document and prove the wrong doings going on. "All that is required for evil to prevail....", you know the rest.

    The way I read your post, tho, it seems to me that it is a one issue thing...you wrote, "So the drug addict 13 year old next door has a gun, what can I do about it?" If that is really your question, I would suggest contacting Senator Feinstein, the Mayors Against Illegal Guns, and even the Brady Bunch. They have awesome ideas for removing guns from everybody in America. You may make all the conjectures you want about how somebody acquired a handgun, what their lifestyle is, and how unfit they may be, BUT until it is proven in court of law, not the neighborhood vigilante court, it is not fact.

    I know I have read several of your posts about the issues you have had with this particular neighbor. The only knowledge I have is based on what you have written. If what you say is actually factual, then do what is necessary to get the law involved.
     

    Thegeek

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 20, 2013
    2,070
    63
    Indianapolis
    Just get security cameras. Catch the kid waiving the gun around and send it to the news saying the police won't do anything about it. Problem solved.
     

    WyldeShot

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 28, 2011
    1,248
    38
    Greenville
    Do you know the address? You can lookup the owners name using GIS mapping and then search to see if the owner has a record. Feel free to send me the address and I'll find out the name for you.
     

    BE Mike

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    18   0   0
    Jul 23, 2008
    7,660
    113
    New Albany
    Just a thought. It might be that these people are already being investigated. Sometimes the long arm of the law acts slowly, especially when drug cases are being developed.
     

    tom1025

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    27   0   0
    Mar 6, 2009
    2,101
    38
    Underground
    Mosinguy's first rule on buying secluded property: If the area you want to move into has a relatively large city/town within 10 miles of it, move farther away unless you want to be the "old" looking house in a sea of vinyl houses and white trash. I feel bad for the people who lived in Franklin Township first. Must've been a nice place before the renters showed up.

    Franklin Township was a nice place until the Vinyl Villages popped up.
     

    Hookeye

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Dec 19, 2011
    15,253
    77
    armpit of the midwest
    Get one of these
    3000002913.jpg

    remove badge sticker.
    Place on chest of shirt and march over and curb stomp the kid and dad.
     

    indyjs

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Apr 4, 2008
    537
    43
    Greenwood
    I'd leave it alone. Work on moving out. It really is the property owners (parents) issue
    You know he has a gun, he does not know you have one. best way to leave it
     
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