So, I graduated... now what?

[kiddchaos]

I can tell you from my perspective (Software Engineer), we'd rather have people with Certifications that know what they're doing over a degree any day.

Except certs are like extortion...every couple years you have to re-test and shell out more cash. Boo!
If you know what you're doing and participate in some of the local user groups, you can land a good job.

 

[Scutter01]

Except certs are like extortion...every couple years you have to re-test and shell out more cash. Boo!
If you know what you're doing and participate in some of the local user groups, you can land a good job.

Only if you want to be current. The IT world moves so fast that it makes sense to expire certs. Some employers don't care if they're current, just that you had them at one time. Some do care because they need the certs to be eligible for some partner programs or because they use it to sell you to their customers. I have about a half dozen certs that I've never used but having them gets my employer an extra point off their reseller cost on some piece of software or other.

 

[OneBadV8]

Except certs are like extortion...every couple years you have to re-test and shell out more cash. Boo!
If you know what you're doing and participate in some of the local user groups, you can land a good job.

If certs are that important to an employer, they'll usually cover the costs of training materials and the cost of the test. Having X number of people certified at my employer saves us a buttload of money on licensing.

 

[Shadow8088]

Except certs are like extortion...every couple years you have to re-test and shell out more cash. Boo!

I do actually agree with this, however, that's just the way the world works right now. Moore's Law says that technology doubles every 18 months... (and others say that it's slowing down) But facts is facts.. in the IT field, you will constantly be learning out of necessity... most of us know and accept this when we enter the field...

Moore's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Scutter01]

in the IT field, you will constantly be learning out of necessity... most of us know and accept this when we enter the field...

I'm taking the last of 9 tests I need to complete a certification next week, and that cert is only valid for two years. I have another cert test scheduled for July. That one is a $400 lab fee and will complete around 300 hours worth of class and study time. That one won't expire, but as soon as the next major version comes out, I'll have to take some "What's New?" type of classes and then re-certify to update it to the latest version.

 

[OneBadV8]

I'm taking the last of 9 tests I need to complete a certification next week, and that cert is only valid for two years. I have another cert test scheduled for July. That one is a $400 lab fee and will complete around 300 hours worth of class and study time. That one won't expire, but as soon as the next major version comes out, I'll have to take some "What's New?" type of classes and then re-certify to update it to the latest version.

I'm sorta in a similar boat, but mine are typically only 3 - 4 tests every 18 months or so.

 

[Scutter01]

I'm sorta in a similar boat, but mine are typically only 3 - 4 tests every 18 months or so.

Most of mine are that way. This particular one is sort of a blanket cert covering all of their products, which is why there are so many tests. It's called an "engineer" cert, but it would be more accurate to call it a technician cert. The coursework implies that you'll be an expert on each product, but really they teach you just enough to be familiar with it so that you can install and configure it without calling for support. Once I complete it, then I'll have to go down the "expert" path.

 

[HoughMade]

...I'm filing this away for the day I end up using my degree in a job (Human Resource Management). It'll be a nice addition to the crushing dreams, hopes, and souls toolbox.

Make yourself essential to a business, have skills and a work ethic that others don't have, volunteer for the jobs no one wants, give more than is expected of you without the promise of more money, and the market will reward you. Do the same job, the same way, the same quality as a thousand other guys....and be rewarded with the knowledge that you are replaceable. If that crushes souls and dreams, then the dreams were of riches without achievement and that soul values "showing up" as the greatest virtue in life.

I've been in the workforce since I was 15 (28 years ago) and I've been in my professional career for over 15 years and I've seen it time and time again. People show up, do only what the job requires, and act like they are some kind of hero. Impress me. Be quietly competent and let others praise you. Go above and beyond. Get here before me, stay later (pretty rare), find something that needs to be done and do it without being asked. I really, really want employees like that. Do this sort of thing and you'll smile to yourself when people are satisfied with a cost of living raise.

 

[Scutter01]

People show up, do only what the job requires, and act like they are some kind of hero. Impress me. Be quietly competent and let others praise you. Go above and beyond. Get here before me, stay later (pretty rare), find something that needs to be done and do it without being asked. I really, really want employees like that. Do this sort of thing and you'll smile to yourself when people are satisfied with a cost of living raise.

Didn't you just tell me that "people only deserve to be paid what they agreed to"? How does that work with you, as an employer, wanting a worker who goes "above and beyond"? Don't you only deserve the work that you agreed to pay for? I'm not trying to call you out or troll you. I know it sounds that way, but I can't think how else to word it.

My position is that an employee/employer relationship is a business partnership. Sure, we can both do the bare minimum, where the employer only pays what was agreed upon and the employee only does the agreed-upon work, but I'd much rather have a relationship where it's understood (possibly, but not necessarily, contractually) that if the employee proves himself to be a value then he deserves (yes, deserves) additional consideration. Otherwise, the employer is just taking unfair advantage of someone trying to get ahead.

 

[ATOMonkey]

In my experience, going above and beyond only results in more stress, not more pay or opportunities.

Kissing ass, and taking credit for work others did results in more pay and opportunities. The days of working hard and being recognized for it are long long gone.

 

[Birds Away]

So, in '93, I decided to take a year off after high school to get a job and put a little cash in my pocket before heading off to college... yeah, we all know how well that worked out. 21 years later, I FINALLY got an Associate's Degree in CINT. So, do I just stick with the associate's and make a "decent living", or do I get a job and continue on for my bachelor's (while getting as many certifications as I can..) at night school/online?

btw, if anyone knows of someone hiring around NWI, let me know...

I think that means you're supposed to move in with your parents.

 

[HoughMade]

Didn't you just tell me that "people only deserve to be paid what they agreed to"? ...

Apparently you missed the part about " pay rate changes should be according to what the market will bear".

What is hard to understand about that? If you do only what a thousand other guys do, reference to the market means you get paid what a thousand other guys are willing to work for. Make yourself a rare and valuable commodity and the market will value you more. If you show yourself over time to be worth more, you should make more. If the current employer doesn't recognize it, perhaps another one will. The market is a beautiful thing.

I have been both an employee and now am an owner/employer. I want good people who will make me money and will pay well for that. I will not give a raise just 'cause. As an employee, my increases far outstripped "cost of living" pretty much every year. At the same time, I was surrounded by people who did the bare minimum and wondered why they didn't make more ("but I did what you said") and were not on the partnership track. Choose to control your destiny or be beholden to someone else. It's everyone's choice.

Better yet, own your job. Bigger risks, and sometimes big setbacks. However, there can be bigger rewards as well.

 

[Scutter01]

Apparently you missed the part about " pay rate changes should be according to what the market will bear".

What is hard to understand about that? If you do only what a thousand other guys do, reference to the market means you get paid what a thousand other guys are willing to work for. Make yourself a rare and valuable commodity and the market will value you more. If you show yourself over time to be worth more, you should make more. If the current employer doesn't recognize it, perhaps another one will. The market is a beautiful thing.

I have been both an employee and now am an owner/employer. I want good people who will make me money and will pay well for that. I will not give a raise just 'cause. As an employee, my increases far outstripped "cost of living" pretty much every year. At the same time, I was surrounded by people who did the bare minimum and wondered why they didn't make more ("but I did what you said") and were not on the partnership track. Choose to control your destiny or be beholden to someone else. It's everyone's choice.

You're asking people to work on spec, in the hope that maybe some day you will be gracious enough to pay them for their extra effort at some unspecified point in the future. I'm saying that the agreement should be (either written or unwritten) "if you work harder than what I'm paying you for, then after one year we will re-evaluate your compensation". In other words, if you are doing your job, you deserve a raise. I don't consider "doing your job" to be "the absolute bare minimum that you can get away with". I never said anything about a raise "just 'cause".

 

[HoughMade]

You're asking people to work on spec, in the hope that maybe some day you will be gracious enough to pay them for their extra effort at some unspecified point in the future. I'm saying that the agreement should be (either written or unwritten) "if you work harder than what I'm paying you for, then after one year we will re-evaluate your compensation"...

I have no problem with that. I never said I was against agreements between the parties.

 

[Scutter01]

I have no problem with that. I never said I was against agreements between the parties.

It sounds like we're both in agreement, it's just semantics that are causing the difference. I believe that regular pay reviews should be an expected part of any job, without having to have it spelled out in a contract. Although I do think having it in a contract (or at least spelled out in corporate policy) makes it clearer for everyone involved.

 

[yeahbaby]

When I worked in higher ed, my last several years where:
- no raise
- 0.5% raise
- 1.5% raise
- flat $65 raise (not per check. for the YEAR)

I got out of that hot mess. Higher Ed has its perks, but competitive pay is NOT one of them.

I work higher education in IT. And it most certainly does not pay as much as the private sector, as I am about 7K underpaid. Although at my University there are some pretty nice perks. If you are employed here full time for three years I can attend classes and my tuition is covered. That applies to my spouse and children. In addition, the school is in a tuition exchange program with other Universities across the county with the same deal. Our youngest son is taking advantage of the tuition exchange program. There are people here that wash dishes and do landscape work for that benefit. We get two weeks paid time off at Christmas/New Years, the day before and after Thanksgiving, Good Friday. On top of that I get three weeks vacation and sick time. The healthcare plan is decent and is the PERF. Sure I could be making more money, but the salary sacrifice versus my son racking up thousands of dollars in student loans is worth it. I am a 25 year veteran of IT management and support services. Now I just manage student technicians which is fine with me. Anyway certs and experience can take you a long way.

 

[Shadow8088]

I think that means you're supposed to move in with your parents.

I don't think my wife would like that very much.. or my mother for that matter... And I'm 100% positive that I'd hate it...

 

[hoosierdoc]

The degree shows you are capable of learning and accomplishing goals, not necessarily that you have knowledge an employer wants. Always be learning, your entire life. Whether you get a few initials for your work won't mean as much as the knowledge you acquire along the way.

 

[Birds Away]

I don't think my wife would like that very much.. or my mother for that matter... And I'm 100% positive that I'd hate it...

Well, you're never going to make it as a slacker with that attitude.

 

[KLB]

In my experience, going above and beyond only results in more stress, not more pay or opportunities.

Kissing ass, and taking credit for work others did results in more pay and opportunities. The days of working hard and being recognized for it are long long gone.

Interesting. What field are you in?

Going above and beyond has always gotten me benefits. I get larger raises and I kept my job when my company was laying off over 40% of its employees, including the other five network engineers we used to have.