Smoking Ban Feelings?

[J_Wales]

I cant read this thread anymore. The extent of ignorance in some of the responses is literally making me sick to my stomach. Thankfully I still have the right to choose not to read this anymore. For all of you people that have stated support for forced government control of peoples freedoms, all I can say is I pity you in your ignorance. To not know history is to be doomed to repeat it. The more control you give the government the more control government wants. That is just simple fact.

Remember the words of Martin Niemoller in Nazi Germany in 1945

First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.

WELL SAID!

 

[Bowman78]

there

was a post by J_wales saying why don't we contact our city-county council member? I can't as I don't have one! I live in morgan county but spend a lot of time in marion co as I work there and visit very frequently for entertainment and grub.... But I'm more concerned of the infringement on owners rights as I'm a non-smoker so it doesn't affect me personally other than I love freedom... I guess that's a passing fad in this country......??

 

[level.eleven]

Hardly.

You may benefit from a review of John Locke... and perhaps even a review of the D of I.

You aren't being taxed without representation. We have the most dynamic democracy in the history of mankind. These representatives were chosen by public mandate. You are getting the government you deserve, plain and simple.

 

[J_Wales]

was a post by J_wales saying why don't we contact our city-county council member? I can't as I don't have one! I live in morgan county but spend a lot of time in marion co as I work there and visit very frequently for entertainment and grub.... But I'm more concerned of the infringement on owners rights as I'm a non-smoker so it doesn't affect me personally other than I love freedom... I guess that's a passing fad in this country......??

Sadly, it is indeed passing.

 

[J_Wales]

You aren't being taxed without representation. We have the most dynamic democracy in the history of mankind. These representatives were chosen by public mandate. You are getting the government you deserve, plain and simple.

We aren't a democracy level. We are a republic.

Locke and the D of I run much deeper than taxation without representation.

Do your homework. Learn the difference. Your individual liberty depends upon it.

Good luck to you.

 

[Bowman78]

j_wales

sorry I can't copy and paste but I agree... It will pass and yes it is sad as yet one more evidence of freedom that will pass from our fingertips...... Sucks! I plead and preach to all who will listen within my social circle but most are of the attitude that it doesn't aFfect me so why bother....??

 

[level.eleven]

We aren't a democracy level. We are a republic.

Locke and the D of I run much deeper than taxation without representation.

Do your homework. Learn the difference. Your individual liberty depends upon it.

Good luck to you.

Again, your opinion on any of those source materials is irrelevant. That is not how America works. Reading them and coming to a different conclusion may help you sleep well at night, but the benefits end there. You must awake the next morning and live with the results of the judges and legislators you elected.

 

[TheGhostRider]

I smoke... I'm not proud of smoking but, I do smoke.
It's a choice that I made a long time ago. Not the smartest thing I've done but, none the less, it was my choice.
It wasn't the governments decision that I smoke... It's not the governments business if I stop smoking or continue smoking. It's my business.

Today they want to limit my choice to smoke. What will they want to limit tomorrow?
Unlike our Right To Bare Arms smoking is not protected by the Constitution...
But it is still relevant... We as Americans are losing more than our Rights...
We our losing the ability to make our own Choices. Why?
Because we are our own worst enemies.


Lazy
Apathetic
Detached
Prone to whine with little action.
We have the government that we deserve.


To the non-smokers and the anti-smokers....
Today it's my choice to smoke or not to smoke.


Tomorrow you might lose the ability to have a choice on something that matters to you. It's all relevant.

Always remember folks....
Every time a group of like minded people “vote” to limit another groups “choices” don't be surprised and get pissy when it's your turn in the barrel...

 

[USMCsergeant]

Kind of a slippery slope. It should be at the discretion of the business in my opinion for what it is worth.

 

[J_Wales]

Again, your opinion on any of those source materials is irrelevant. That is not how America works. Reading them and coming to a different conclusion may help you sleep well at night, but the benefits end there. You must awake the next morning and live with the results of the judges and legislators you elected.

Not so much.

In recent decades, I get the government elected by those that have no understanding of natural law, individual liberty, or even Locke.

Eventually, those citizens who do understand such things may do well to recall our Founding Father's position when they wrote:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

 

[sepe]

I smoke... I'm not proud of smoking but, I do smoke.
It's a choice that I made a long time ago. Not the smartest thing I've done but, none the less, it was my choice.
It wasn't the governments decision that I smoke... It's not the governments business if I stop smoking or continue smoking. It's my business.

Today they want to limit my choice to smoke. What will they want to limit tomorrow?
Unlike our Right To Bare Arms smoking is not protected by the Constitution...
But it is still relevant... We as Americans are losing more than our Rights...
We our losing the ability to make our own Choices. Why?
Because we are our own worst enemies.


Lazy
Apathetic
Detached
Prone to whine with little action.
We have the government that we deserve.


To the non-smokers and the anti-smokers....
Today it's my choice to smoke or not to smoke.


Tomorrow you might lose the ability to have a choice on something that matters to you. It's all relevant.

Always remember folks....
Every time a group of like minded people “vote” to limit another groups “choices” don't be surprised and get pissy when it's your turn in the barrel...

I fully agree that it is your choice to smoke. I just don't want to have to smell it while I'm eating. I think more businesses would be better off banning it on their own and letting smokers boycott if they don't like it. Even though I smoke cigars sometimes, I get sick of inconsiderate people (I don't force ANYONE else to smell/inhale my smoke). Too many times to count I've seen people smoking where there were no smoking signs posted by owner's choice. I've seen plenty of (sober) smokers lighting up in bars and restaurants in cities and towns with smoking bans. Far too many will smoke where ever and whenever while throwing their butts on the ground for someone else to clean. Many times I HAVE said something to people that were smoking where there were bans in place or the owner had signs posted. Most get all pissy because nobody has the right to tell them what they can and can't do...in turn, you don't have the right to tell me I can't go through the day without an inconsiderate jackass blowing smoke in my face.

 

[level.eleven]

Not so much.

In recent decades, I get the government elected by those that have no understanding of natural law, individual liberty, or even Locke.

Eventually, those citizens who do understand such things may do well to recall our Founding Father's position when they wrote:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Paging Dr. dross......The citizenry wants a smoking ban and no reading of political wonks from 200+ years ago is going to change that. And no, you get the government you elected. The people are a collective that organize to elect leaders. Part of that social contract is living by the legislation passed by your elected representatives and the various levels of the judicial system.

 

[J_Wales]

Paging Dr. dross......The citizenry wants a smoking ban and no reading of political wonks from 200+ years ago is going to change that. And no, you get the government you elected. The people are a collective that organize to elect leaders. Part of that social contract is living by the legislation passed by your elected representatives and the various levels of the judicial system.

You're a good little sheep, level. Marx would be proud.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I think more businesses would be better off banning it on their own and letting smokers boycott if they don't like it.

Why is this ok, but

I think businesses should be able to allow it, and non-smokers can boycott if they don't like it.

isnt?

 

[level.eleven]

You're a good little sheep, level. Marx would be proud.

I am assuming you are referencing Karl Marx. I would say that reference would certainly apply to the tobacco industry, but not at all with local governments passing legislation (legislative branch) that has proven to be sound by courts (judicial branch).

This isn't even an active issue. The judges you elected approve of allowing municipalities to enact smoking bans. And where courts have generally agreed with you in the broad language of such ban they recommend the remedy to be legislative instead of judicial. As an example, bars, cigar stores, or bowling alleys can get exemptions where "workplace" bans were codified into law.

 

[sepe]

Why is this ok, but

I think businesses should be able to allow it, and non-smokers can boycott if they don't like it.

isnt?

That is perfectly acceptable but a business owner would most likely prefer to cater to the majority, you know...so they could possibly enjoy more sales. For the record, there are several places that I won't go because employees and customers chain smoke. Absolutely disgusting while you're trying to enjoy a meal.

 

[J_Wales]

I am assuming you are referencing Karl Marx. I would say that reference would certainly apply to the tobacco industry, but not at all with local governments passing legislation (legislative branch) that has proven to be sound by courts (judicial branch).

This isn't even an active issue. The judges you elected approve of allowing municipalities to enact smoking bans. And where courts have generally agreed with you in the broad language of such ban they recommend the remedy to be legislative instead of judicial. As an example, bars, cigar stores, or bowling alleys can get exemptions where "workplace" bans were codified into law.

Wake up... Your individual liberty and private property rights are under attack.... though I doubt you are even aware or care.

Good luck to you level.

 

[Smokepole]

Sorry, I just don't buy it. There is TOO much evidence out now that links second hand smoke to all kinds of disease INCLUDING cancer!

Every employer, in my opinion, has an obligation to its employees AND customers to provide a safe environment.

But, THANK GOD, we all have our right to our own opinions.

Sorry, but your information is not accurate. Mine on the other hand is not opinion but fact. Yes there is a lot of STUFF out here. But most of it is like the the Global Warming Climate Change stuff, the majority of which are META - STUDIES (studies that group together and review multiple studies at one time), are not been peer reviewed and have been debunked and showed not to have been properly controlled and/or interpreted. And in many cases intentionally misquoted - where actually reviewing the study one will find direct contradictions to the article that quotes the study.

The only CREDIBLE, PEER REVIEWED study that is out was performed by the American Cancer Society from 1960 to 1998 and concluded by the University of California. It followed 118,000+ smokers as well as 35,000+ non-smoking spouses. It was properly controlled and ordered. It showed no causal link to an increased risk of Heart Disease, Cancer or Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease from any occasional casual exposure to environmental (second hand) smoke. Link: Environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality in a prospective study of Californians, 1960-98 | BMJ Quote from the ACS / UC study:
"Conclusion

The results of the California CPS I cohort do not support a causal relation between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. Given the limitations of the underlying data in this and the other studies of environmental tobacco smoke and the small size of the risk, it seems premature to conclude that environmental tobacco smoke causes death from coronary heart disease and lung cancer."

The Anti - Tobacco lobby and the power hungry Libs want everybody to think that there is a strong link between SHS and Heart Disease, Cancer and COPD, but there is no real correlation, even though it would SEEM to make sense. Wouldn't be the first time that what SEEMED to make sense, actually didn't. Keep in mind that there has NEVER been another study that even comes close to the expanse and extent of this study. It is the only study out there on smoking and second-hand smoke that has any real legitimacy.

Here is a link to a website that showcases the obfuscation that the media and the anti-smoking lobby use: Secondhand Smoke Studies: The Hype and The Deceit

Happy reading. The ACS study is rather dry and you will have to read many sections multiple times to make sense of it if you aren't used to reading statistical analyses. To know what the actual data say, you have to read the actual study and the peer reviews to know if the study is true to life or just more rhetoric. And if it ain't peer reviewed, it ain't worth your time. And if it's news article it gets even deeper and you need to pay even closer attention.

 

[Smokepole]

I'm a reformed smoker. [the worst kind]lol Can't stand the smell, etc.etc.
The liberal little town of Vincennes, its city council in all its wisdom is currently considering adopting Bloomington In. no smoking policy. The decision will not be made until after the new mayor and council members are in place after the first of the yrear.
I believe that everyone has a right to smoke and that everyone has a right to breathe smoke free air.
I'm getting really tired of the nanny state we live in. Where does it stop?

It won't. Not even after they get our guns. Until we stop them.

You know, I am REALLY surprised at the number of folks here that are RABID about their right to own, carry and shoot their guns, but are perfectly willing to put others under the thumb of government and sacrifice their rights to live their lives and run their businesses as they see fit. You can't claim to be Conservative regarding one issue and then subscribe to a Liberal/Communist philosophy where another is concerned and claim to be a Conservative. Those that do are the poster children for hypocrisy.

I call 'em as I see 'em.

 

[sepe]

If you look at my post history you will see I am not a supporter of any of those mentioned. Also I never empty my ashtray in a parking lot. That is what trashcans are for. I do occasionally toss my cigarette butt on the ground. They are actually bio degradable. In mass I agree though, it does look bad. I do smoke in places that allow smoking. It is not an issue of respect of anybody else. If they do not like smoking or being around it they could and should simply go someplace that does not allow smoking. I rarely drink but when I do I like to smoke so I would not go to a bar that did not allow smoking.

With you talking about republican candidates it does make me wonder who you support currently. I would assume it is not Ron Paul because he is for personal freedom. With the names you mention I would again assume the option left would be Obama. That would make sense.

Just to ad I am no dr. or nurse but I do work in the healthcare field. I deliver, service and set up home oxygen equipment. I have seen many people with many different lung ailments. Some contribute it to smoking. Some say they have never smoked nor been around many smokers. If you do not like the smell then by all means avoid places that allow smoking. If it bothers you that much when people smoke outside then try to avoid people who are smoking outside. Just still not sure what would give you the right to try and say what I should and should not do and where and when I should do it.

I wasn't talking about you specifically and I don't care about people smoking outside. I actually am on a smoke free campus 3 days a week and each of those days I see at least 10-15 people smoking in no smoking areas (but they're outside so I don't care, I'm not going to narc so they get $50 fines because that is stupid). Just still not sure what would give you the right to try and say what I should and should not do and where and when I should do it. (yes, I have the right to not breath in your smell of burning garbage)

About the candidate I support, that would be Ron Paul.