Slavery in America

[KG1]

Ben explains CRT well here:

Can’t watch it. Biased source.

 

[wtburnette]

Can’t watch it. Biased source.

Just because the source is biased doesn't mean that his definition is wrong.

 

[jamil]

I was kinda unsettled by this post, but I didn’t know why. I took a little time, came back to look at it again to figure out why I was uneasy about this post, and realized what it was. You’re assigning behavior to culture. Is that fair to say? If it is, what traits would a Black person possess, if say they wanted to mimic “White Culture,” that isn’t a stereotype? I ask this, because believe it or not, I am Black, but have been accused more than once, of “acting White.”

Here's the conversation so we don't have to keep looking back for the context.

I grew up with none of the things you are speaking on. The bad things you're call "Black culture," isn't that at all. It's simply "bad culture," and no one is exempt from it. But you knew that because you specifically pointed out "all of the things i mentioned are pushed on us (all of us) as black culture." I appreciated that.
My problem, with how you framed your post, is that there seem as if you have the expectation that the "Black community," should address those issues because they are "Black issues." Well, unless there is a belief that Blackness includes some sort of genetic flaw that makes us prone to issues, then it's not a "Black issue," It's a community issue. Issues that communities all across the nation have, melanin content varying.

Okay, let's look at one "culture" issue. What attitudes are different in "Black culture" vs "White culture" that cause 65% of black children to live in single-parent homes? Is that cultural? Or is it something else? Is it racism?

What attitudes are different in "White culture" vs "Black culture" that causes 75% of white children to live in two-parent homes? Is that a fair question? Is that something that only black individuals can solve? How do white people fix that? I think it takes individuals to fix that.

That's how I took grillak's thoughts.

You put "Black culture" in quotes. And that's what I did. I'll say this again, that I don't think it's DNA. I think it's culture, but not necessarily "black culture". In 1960 75% of black children lived in a home with both parents. Whites have the same culture to some extent because broken homes increased over the same period for them too. Just not as much.

I think the obvious cause that initiated the shift away from nuclear families is welfare. The "man in the house" policy was the same for poor white people too as well as Blacks. I think it's obvious that culture has something to do with it, but I wouldn't say it's "black culture". You called the things that grillak described "bad culture". I'm find with calling it that. Is that historical injustice? Well, the same thing happened to Whites, just not in the same proportions.

Okay, so CRT would call that systemic racism simply because it disproportionately affects black people even though there are multiple factors at play other than race.

All that to say that, no, I don't think that race alone or "black culture" explains the numbers, nor does it imply that CRT or any race specific actions can fix any of that.

 

[gregr]

Just because the source is biased doesn't mean that his definition is wrong.

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act-

George Orwell

 

[KG1]

Just because the source is biased doesn't mean that his definition is wrong.

It doesn’t matter. We are told that the source must be discounted even without hearing or reading what the source has to say.

 

[jamil]

This is an excellent post. I glad you mentioned the oft forgotten “Man in the House” rule, implemented in the 1960s... right off the waning days of Jim Crow. Prior to, such welfare programs were generally beyond the reach of potential Black recipients because of the jobs they worked; kinda in the same way illegals are within the system today. With the advent of LBJ’s Great Society, that started to change... but in the name of “fiscal conservatism,” many rules were set in place. I’ll leave it to you as to why after years of social programs which benefited many Americans, why the change occurred when more Americans started to enter the system.

Too much there to address, but let's just say we're gonna disagree on a lot of that.

Second. You mentioned the effects of drugs and guns into the Black community as being problematic. I disagree. The introduction wasn’t the issue.... guns and drugs existed for eons throughout American society. The problematic things wasn’t the items, it was the laws to combat them. What is the single event that started California down its anti-gun crusade? INGO-ers know. Why have drug penalties increased so dramatically over crimes with victims, and within that subset, why did/are/were certain drugs (even derivatives) carry harsher penalties than others? Heck let’s look at the opioid crisis. You can’t be Black and over 50 (probably younger) and not know how Heroin ravaged the Black community. How was that addressed? I know of lots of old dopers who did serious time for heroin. What resources were used to combat that? Today? Now it’s a health crisis, not a criminal enterprise. Those people need help, right? Where were those voices in the 60s and 70s. Tell me why it was criminal activity in inner city, but not so in the burbs. Who do we blame for that inequality in both justice, and more importantly perception, when it comes to guns and drugs?

If you're correct, if there weren't drugs and guns there wouldn't be the opportunity for the other stuff. So drugs and guns are problematic. What about the burbs? What's the high crime in the burbs?

Why don't you think kids, often very innocent kids, getting shot by other kids is a big deal? How is that not problematic? This is basically CRT. Don't blame the thing it is, blame systemic racism?

Systemic racism is basically the CRT equivalent of

 

[jamil]

Can’t watch it. Biased source.

It's fine to watch biased sources. I don't think there are any sources that are unbiased. But if they have a hard bias like Shapiro does (don't get me wrong, I generally like Shapiro) his opinions are more ideologically based and people are going to push back if you use him as an informative source.

 

[NKBJ]

I remember reading a long while back, (and no, I`m not going to research this to deliver specific data points), that there were segments of legal immigrants in the U.S., that came to the country with little to nothing. They spoke little to no English, but set up residence and got busy working. They started up their own businesses in their own communities, and worked incredibly long hours, virtually NEVER being "off the clock", but, in the matter of a few years, anywhere from 3 to 10 years, were well established, vital to their community, and doing VERY WELL financially. Moral of this story is, there is ZERO excuse for whining that you don`t have what you desire, don`t have what you need, whatever it is you`re whining about. A great MANY of us, me included, are NOT prone to THIS level of dedication and hard work, but the point remains the same; there are NO excuses.

My brother-in-law came from Mexico City.
Worked his tail off and sent his children to Rice and Yale.
Way to go, Tach, you were a hell of a man.

 

[gregr]

Forget the 4th of July? This tells you the real agenda; just one more America hating, America bashing "holiday".

Forget the Fourth of July—It’s Time to Celebrate Juneteenth

Photo Illustration by The Daily Beast/Photos via GettyWhen I think of Juneteenth, I can’t help but think about a famous speech by Frederick Douglass—and about the young Mexican American activist who told me a couple of years ago that he wanted to celebrate Juneteenth instead of the Fourth of...

www.yahoo.com

 

[wtburnette]

It's fine to watch biased sources. I don't think there are any sources that are unbiased. But if they have a hard bias like Shapiro does (don't get me wrong, I generally like Shapiro) his opinions are more ideologically based and people are going to push back if you use him as an informative source.

While I understand the knee jerk reaction (not from you, but from other people who would rush to judgement), truth isn't influenced by who is telling it. Just because someone doesn't like Ben Shapiro, doesn't mean that his explanation of CRT was incorrect. From everything I've read, it was pretty spot on.

 

[Leadeye]

Lest we forget, July 4th is when we celebrate American independence, many Americans died to make that happen. A lot more Americans died in the civil war which liberated the slaves allowing the celebration of Juneteenth. Lets not forget those Americans in the haste to degrade July 4th for any reason.

 

[gregr]

Lest we forget, July 4th is when we celebrate American independence, many Americans died to make that happen. A lot more Americans died in the civil war which liberated the slaves allowing the celebration of Juneteenth. Lets not forget those Americans in the haste to degrade July 4th for any reason.

As with many instances, there is an intent to divide us with the latest "celebration". It seems to be always about them and us, those and these. July 4th celebrates the independence of an imperfect, yet, fully American nation. A nation, black, white, and everyone else. This latest made up "holiday" is just one more division, emphasizing hyphenated peoples. I refuse to be "Italian-American", I`m simply an American. I celebrate the Fourth of July because that birthed unarguably THE GREATEST nation to ever offer hope to this old world. I detest those who stir passions and turn that against all those who have given so much to and for this great Republic. From the Founders, to the warriors who still today keep us safe, and to the everyday people, those who are simply good citizens, who are productive, who work everyday, pay the taxes that drive this great nation and have assimilated joyfully, because they more than anything else, just want to be an American citizen, THEY are whom we ought to celebrate.

 

[BigRed]

Just because the source is biased doesn't mean that his definition is wrong.

I suspect the comment you replied to was made with sarcasm.

 

[wtburnette]

I suspect the comment you replied to was made with sarcasm.

I realize that was likely, but it was sentiment that would have come up eventually anyway.

 

[grillak]

This is an excellent post. I glad you mentioned the oft forgotten “Man in the House” rule, implemented in the 1960s... right off the waning days of Jim Crow. Prior to, such welfare programs were generally beyond the reach of potential Black recipients because of the jobs they worked; kinda in the same way illegals are within the system today. With the advent of LBJ’s Great Society, that started to change... but in the name of “fiscal conservatism,” many rules were set in place. I’ll leave it to you as to why after years of social programs which benefited many Americans, why the change occurred when more Americans started to enter the system.
Second. You mentioned the effects of drugs and guns into the Black community as being problematic. I disagree. The introduction wasn’t the issue.... guns and drugs existed for eons throughout American society. The problematic things wasn’t the items, it was the laws to combat them. What is the single event that started California down its anti-gun crusade? INGO-ers know. Why have drug penalties increased so dramatically over crimes with victims, and within that subset, why did/are/were certain drugs (even derivatives) carry harsher penalties than others? Heck let’s look at the opioid crisis. You can’t be Black and over 50 (probably younger) and not know how Heroin ravaged the Black community. How was that addressed? I know of lots of old dopers who did serious time for heroin. What resources were used to combat that? Today? Now it’s a health crisis, not a criminal enterprise. Those people need help, right? Where were those voices in the 60s and 70s. Tell me why it was criminal activity in inner city, but not so in the burbs. Who do we blame for that inequality in both justice, and more importantly perception, when it comes to guns and drugs?

1st. while drugs and guns had been in the inner cities for years, crack (originally called ready rock and freebase. it 1st appeared in the early 60's) changed the entire balance of drugs vs family structure.

some consider it a stretch but i do BELIEVE that it was a calculated effort. the payoff vs the chance that it would fail to produce the desired effects was very low. so it became a win-win for those in power whose purpose was to decimate the inner city. it was so brazen that most do not believe it was planned.

2nd why would it work so well? what was it about the "minorities" that made them more supceptible to fall for it. i believe it was a percieved hopelessness. with all the open hostility and violence towards POC and blacks in particular many just gave up. they saw it as a means of escape from the "problem" of being black in america. there were many organizations dedicated to bringing the black family back but they were fighting against a government that would spare no expense to prove their point that slavery should have never ceased. "just look at all the shiftless, lazy, dopeheads".

every black-focused organization was targeted to be dismanteled. mlk, malcolm x and the nation of islam, marcus garvey's pan-anfrican movement, the black panther party, us (a radical offshoot of the black panther party) were all demonized to the black community. they were then infiltrated and destroyed from within.

3rd speaking on the laws of that era and the enforcement there of. most laws were added to combat the plague of crime in the inner cities that grew exponentially after crack and gun violence had a stranglehold on the black community. the sentencing for these crimes were always wieghted against blacks. the effiect was even more families left fatherless. since it was a forced seperation, and not due to the just a drug adled father who traded his family for welfare, the black family was above a 50% rate of single parent households. even today the sentencing of crimes is disproporstionately applied.

now....with the VERY brief history lesson just laid out...

how do we solve the problems in the black community? remember..these are now (thanks to the shift of attack from racial to socio-economial) universal problems.

this IS the age of information. this knowledge is free and readily available to all.

focus on the black community (because of the outcry of institutional racism being the loudest , CRT, ergo) and we see families abandonded by fathers who chose something other than responsibilty. we see BOTH parents hooked on something (usually drugs. but anything can be an addiction, clothes, rims. anything that detracts from the overall well-being of the family). we see fatherless families, a young mother with children by multiple fathers of which NONE are present.

we see this across all communities now. when it was primarily a black problem, the actions taken by TPTB were used to make conditions worse.

back to the question i asked myself. how do "we fix this?"

"we" teach our children to value the family and not an xbox, facebook, jordan's, drugs, thugs, and hoes. we teach our children that hard work & perseverance leads to dignity. that self respect leads to respect for others which in turn brings respect from others.

now hopefully we can all see how i know that, what started as a black problem evolved (or more aptly, devolved) into all of our problem.

looking through the yesterday window. who does the blame fall on for the problems of the black community of the 60's and 70's? the "white" man who planned this or the black community who embraced the "freedom" with open arms?

looking at this through today's eyes...i ask again...how the hell is this problem in the black community the fault of today's "white" man?

 

[jamil]

While I understand the knee jerk reaction (not from you, but from other people who would rush to judgement), truth isn't influenced by who is telling it. Just because someone doesn't like Ben Shapiro, doesn't mean that his explanation of CRT was incorrect. From everything I've read, it was pretty spot on.

Truth is what it is. It’s just hard to know sometimes. I don’t think it’s all that difficult to get at what CRT is all about. The CRT-ists pretty much say what it is explicitly and the way they act it out. I think Shapiro’s description was accurate.

 

[gregr]

"we" teach our children to value the family and not an xbox, facebook, jordan's, drugs, thugs, and hoes. we teach our children that hard work & perseverance leads to dignity. that self respect leads to respect for others which in turn brings respect from others.

I pray this would be achievable, but I suspect not...

 

[grillak]

Here's the conversation so we don't have to keep looking back for the context.




You put "Black culture" in quotes. And that's what I did. I'll say this again, that I don't think it's DNA. I think it's culture, but not necessarily "black culture". In 1960 75% of black children lived in a home with both parents. Whites have the same culture to some extent because broken homes increased over the same period for them too. Just not as much.

I think the obvious cause that initiated the shift away from nuclear families is welfare. The "man in the house" policy was the same for poor white people too as well as Blacks. I think it's obvious that culture has something to do with it, but I wouldn't say it's "black culture". You called the things that grillak described "bad culture". I'm find with calling it that. Is that historical injustice? Well, the same thing happened to Whites, just not in the same proportions.

Okay, so CRT would call that systemic racism simply because it disproportionately affects black people even though there are multiple factors at play other than race.

All that to say that, no, I don't think that race alone or "black culture" explains the numbers, nor does it imply that CRT or any race specific actions can fix any of that.

i pretty sure i was the one who first put black culture in "quotes".

i did that as a means to distinguish the real culture of being black from what TPTB want the world to believe about the black community. i think that maybe where mine and Kut's wires were crossed. {maybe, maybe not)

i think the bad numbers are worse in the black communities than any other is definitely due to race. overall the black community embraced & embellished, and romanticized *black culture" (remember my comments about the quotes) more than any other.

it did not become the universal problem it has until it was on the doorstep of the one's who created it. the sentencing is still overall disproportionately applied. but as a community we know this. instead of not being a criminal to experience the justice system, we cry foul "if it was a white person...* and still not work on the issue.

so i stand by my conclusion that the black community needs to look within for the solution.

 

[gregr]

i pretty sure i was the one who first put black culture in "quotes".

i did that as a means to distinguish the real culture of being black from what TPTB want the world to believe about the black community. i think that maybe where mine and Kut's wires were crossed. {maybe, maybe not)

i think the bad numbers are worse in the black communities than any other is definitely due to race. overall the black community embraced & embellished, and romanticized *black culture" (remember my comments about the quotes) more than any other.

it did not become the universal problem it has until it was on the doorstep of the one's who created it. the sentencing is still overall disproportionately applied. but as a community we know this. instead of not being a criminal to experience the justice system, we cry foul "if it was a white person...* and still not work on the issue.

so i stand by my conclusion that the black community needs to look within for the solution.

I so appreciate your understanding of the problems and willingness to shoulder responsibility. I agree with your assessment to a point...the problems we see across the culture today, (the culture of America), regardless of race, creed or color, are overlapping in many regards, even understanding some cultures have their own unique issues. I honestly believe the restoration of the traditional family would solve the majority of the problems we see today. The traditional family, one man and one woman, raising their children together, I believe would solidify the country, giving children what they need, deserve and desire: to be raised in an atmosphere where they feel loved, safe, and have rules, guidelines, and accountability. These principles transcend cultures and generational timelines, they are, timeless. Just like our Natural Rights, they are never outdated or irrelevant.

 

[grillak]

I pray this would be achievable, but I suspect not...

i pray as well. i pray that enough people actually return to teaching the value of self respect. i talk to the youth so they can recieve a different perspective than what is constantly pushed on them.