Been back and forth on what direction I want to go for my next pistol. Which of these do you guys really enjoy? I don’t think any of the ranges rent these models. I may just buy whatever I find a good deal on first. I just want one to replace my VP9 for home defense and want to get my first pistol red dot.
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Sig P226 or Beretta M9A4 or CZ shadow 2?
- Thread starter Codyf44
- Start date
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But honest answer, I’m a Beretta guy first so I say Langdon Tactical 92G Elite first, then M9A4 lol. After that the Sig P226 (but a MK25 or older P226R, not any of the goofy Legion models). I really dig the CZs, but the Shadows are heavy. If it was purely a range toy and HD thing, then I’d probably put the CZ just after the Beretta.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
Isn't the Shadow 2 not equipped with a decocker or a firing pin safety? If that's still the case, not something I'd want to use for self defense/people management/real world use.
For a red dot gun, I'd probably give the nod to Beretta of the ones you've listed if starting from scratch. I own more Sig P2XX pistols than anything, and by a wide margin, FWIW.
For a red dot gun, I'd probably give the nod to Beretta of the ones you've listed if starting from scratch. I own more Sig P2XX pistols than anything, and by a wide margin, FWIW.
May I inquire ? ...... budget ? .... caliber preference ? (any self-imposed restrictions)
If you like the VP9 you can get a OR VP9. They are out now.
Or are you wanting a $1k plus OR firearm?
As MM said how much is your maximum amount you want to spend for the firearm you want to buy?
I'm guessing you want a full size? Or do you want a compact OR handgun?
Of the three choices, I would go with P226 in its Legion configuration (much prefer the grip).
Nothing wrong with any of those choices though. The Beretta is a great option and the CZ S2 is a great gun. I find it a bit nose heavy and would probably go with a CZ Shadow 2 compact or a CZ SP-01 (would have to mill for red dot).
Have you considered milling your existing gun for a red dot?
Not that I would ever stand in the way of someone buying a new gun!
Nothing wrong with any of those choices though. The Beretta is a great option and the CZ S2 is a great gun. I find it a bit nose heavy and would probably go with a CZ Shadow 2 compact or a CZ SP-01 (would have to mill for red dot).
Have you considered milling your existing gun for a red dot?
Not that I would ever stand in the way of someone buying a new gun!
Send that that pistol up north for a few weeks, I'll take it To Hell and Back and knock the "Shine" right off of it.
I was slow to accept the Beretta when the USAF transitioned from S&W Model 15 revolvers. VUT once I learned to shoot it I really really liked it. On my civilian side I carried the Sig 220 then was issued a 228 for about 12 years and have had a 226 Legion since 2017.
So while I have a lot of rounds out of both (carried the M9 with the ANG until I retired and a DAO 92D Vertec as a agency issued gun for a min)
And I had zero issues or saw many issues with the Sig (and I ran the line of LEOs with them) The Beretta has a couple things. Older ones great never an issue like the internet says there was.
The newer ones and especially the Vertec they cheapened it with polymer triggers and guide PDs. The triggers would get a grove dug in and go dead. Granted this was on high round count training guns but unsat for me. And the guide rods while they worked got chewed up like a rod toy and were problematic to reassemble so if you get a Beretta buy the a metal trigger guide ride and safety/decock levers (on the regular non DAO the safety levers can also be polymer and have a writes feel to them for me anyway)
All that said I prefer the Sig 220 series over the Beretta however you can’t go wrong with either so it’s sort of what you shoot the best!
The CZ’s are nice however I never carried them so I can’t comment on what they are like.
So while I have a lot of rounds out of both (carried the M9 with the ANG until I retired and a DAO 92D Vertec as a agency issued gun for a min)
And I had zero issues or saw many issues with the Sig (and I ran the line of LEOs with them) The Beretta has a couple things. Older ones great never an issue like the internet says there was.
The newer ones and especially the Vertec they cheapened it with polymer triggers and guide PDs. The triggers would get a grove dug in and go dead. Granted this was on high round count training guns but unsat for me. And the guide rods while they worked got chewed up like a rod toy and were problematic to reassemble so if you get a Beretta buy the a metal trigger guide ride and safety/decock levers (on the regular non DAO the safety levers can also be polymer and have a writes feel to them for me anyway)
All that said I prefer the Sig 220 series over the Beretta however you can’t go wrong with either so it’s sort of what you shoot the best!
The CZ’s are nice however I never carried them so I can’t comment on what they are like.
shootersix
Master
- Mar 10, 2009
- 4,530
- 113
Honestly I love my sigs! Own 13 sig pistols!…and giving your 3 choices I’d have to say…”buy the shadow2 compact!”
I'm a Sig/Beretta guy, and my son is into CZs so I have a little experience with them as well.
First off, of you're looking for a Red Dot host, Beretta is the wrong choice. Their mounting solution sucks, and puts the dot way too high, IMO. You'll need ridiculously tall iron sights to co-witness, and the whole setup is just awkward. Langdon has a slightly better solution, but it's still working with a less than ideal platform for optic mounting. There is a guy out there making low profile plated for the 92X RDO guns, and I've looked at them for my 92X Compact but they're expensive and it's still not as clean a solution as I can get with other platforms. I'm still hoping somebody comes out with an optic specifically designed for the Beretta mounting system to help motivate some of it's shortcomings.
My son and I recently decided to each set up a full-size DA/SA gun for an optic.
I have a P226 that I built off of a Matrix Precision frame, with a mix of factory, Revenant Arms, and Grayguns components. The slide is currently out being milled by Parker Mountain Machine for a Holosun 407k. The P22X guns will require milling into the firing pin plunger channel, so the spring will now sit against the bottom of the optic, so the optic or a cover plate will always need to be installed for the gun to function. I don't love that, but it's pretty much what you've gotta do if you want to get your own DA/SA Sig milled. Somehow the factory "RXP" cut slides don't have that issue..they must have changed the internals somewhat. There also aren't many companies out there who will mill a P22X, and it's a kind of pricy proposition compared to some others. I did shoot that gun before I sent the slide off, though and it's an absolute sweetheart...I can't wait for the slide to come back so I can try it with the optic. If you're not married to DA/SA the P320 gives you much simpler, cheaper, and easier to source options for optic-ready handguns.
My son settled on a CZ P09, that he's going to get cut for a Holosun 407c. This will necessitate milling off the rear dovetail (not a huge loss because the factory rear sight sits in there crooked
) and milling a new one behind it that will accept Glock sights. The company he's looking at will do all that for about 60% of what I paid to get my P226 slide done.
Out of the box I was pretty unimpressed with the P09. Besides the rear sight issue, the trigger was absolutely horrendous...long, heavy, and gritty. I put a McCarbo spring kit in it and did a full polish to the internals. It's now a different gun. It has a wonderfully smooth DA pull and a nice clean rolling SA break, and has been 100% reliable through a mix of over 500 rounds of factory ammo and reloads. I'm always a little apprehensive about changing springs due to light strikes, but that's not been an issue whatsoever with this McCarbo kit.
I've shot Shadows and they're fantastic guns. My son wanted one, but the P09 was a lot more achievable for him financially, and now that we've got the action cleaned up I'd say he made a solid choice. It's a polymer-framed gun, so it lacks the heft of the Shadow, but it fills the hand nicely and I'd say the action is 85-90% of a Shadow for less than 50% of the money. It also has a firing pin block, which the Shadow does not, and is something I consider a must for "social purposes."
In summations, or TL/DR: Berettas are great guns, but suck for optics. The P226 and the Shadow are both fine choices (although I don't like the lack of a firing pin block on the Shadow if you plan to use it as a defensive handgun), pick the one you like best, and maybe consider the P09.
First off, of you're looking for a Red Dot host, Beretta is the wrong choice. Their mounting solution sucks, and puts the dot way too high, IMO. You'll need ridiculously tall iron sights to co-witness, and the whole setup is just awkward. Langdon has a slightly better solution, but it's still working with a less than ideal platform for optic mounting. There is a guy out there making low profile plated for the 92X RDO guns, and I've looked at them for my 92X Compact but they're expensive and it's still not as clean a solution as I can get with other platforms. I'm still hoping somebody comes out with an optic specifically designed for the Beretta mounting system to help motivate some of it's shortcomings.
My son and I recently decided to each set up a full-size DA/SA gun for an optic.
I have a P226 that I built off of a Matrix Precision frame, with a mix of factory, Revenant Arms, and Grayguns components. The slide is currently out being milled by Parker Mountain Machine for a Holosun 407k. The P22X guns will require milling into the firing pin plunger channel, so the spring will now sit against the bottom of the optic, so the optic or a cover plate will always need to be installed for the gun to function. I don't love that, but it's pretty much what you've gotta do if you want to get your own DA/SA Sig milled. Somehow the factory "RXP" cut slides don't have that issue..they must have changed the internals somewhat. There also aren't many companies out there who will mill a P22X, and it's a kind of pricy proposition compared to some others. I did shoot that gun before I sent the slide off, though and it's an absolute sweetheart...I can't wait for the slide to come back so I can try it with the optic. If you're not married to DA/SA the P320 gives you much simpler, cheaper, and easier to source options for optic-ready handguns.
My son settled on a CZ P09, that he's going to get cut for a Holosun 407c. This will necessitate milling off the rear dovetail (not a huge loss because the factory rear sight sits in there crooked
) and milling a new one behind it that will accept Glock sights. The company he's looking at will do all that for about 60% of what I paid to get my P226 slide done.Out of the box I was pretty unimpressed with the P09. Besides the rear sight issue, the trigger was absolutely horrendous...long, heavy, and gritty. I put a McCarbo spring kit in it and did a full polish to the internals. It's now a different gun. It has a wonderfully smooth DA pull and a nice clean rolling SA break, and has been 100% reliable through a mix of over 500 rounds of factory ammo and reloads. I'm always a little apprehensive about changing springs due to light strikes, but that's not been an issue whatsoever with this McCarbo kit.
I've shot Shadows and they're fantastic guns. My son wanted one, but the P09 was a lot more achievable for him financially, and now that we've got the action cleaned up I'd say he made a solid choice. It's a polymer-framed gun, so it lacks the heft of the Shadow, but it fills the hand nicely and I'd say the action is 85-90% of a Shadow for less than 50% of the money. It also has a firing pin block, which the Shadow does not, and is something I consider a must for "social purposes."
In summations, or TL/DR: Berettas are great guns, but suck for optics. The P226 and the Shadow are both fine choices (although I don't like the lack of a firing pin block on the Shadow if you plan to use it as a defensive handgun), pick the one you like best, and maybe consider the P09.
I'm a Sig/Beretta guy, and my son is into CZs so I have a little experience with them as well.
First off, of you're looking for a Red Dot host, Beretta is the wrong choice. Their mounting solution sucks, and puts the dot way too high, IMO. You'll need ridiculously tall iron sights to co-witness, and the whole setup is just awkward. Langdon has a slightly better solution, but it's still working with a less than ideal platform for optic mounting. There is a guy out there making low profile plated for the 92X RDO guns, and I've looked at them for my 92X Compact but they're expensive and it's still not as clean a solution as I can get with other platforms. I'm still hoping somebody comes out with an optic specifically designed for the Beretta mounting system to help motivate some of it's shortcomings.
My son and I recently decided to each set up a full-size DA/SA gun for an optic.
I have a P226 that I built off of a Matrix Precision frame, with a mix of factory, Revenant Arms, and Grayguns components. The slide is currently out being milled by Parker Mountain Machine for a Holosun 407k. The P22X guns will require milling into the firing pin plunger channel, so the spring will now sit against the bottom of the optic, so the optic or a cover plate will always need to be installed for the gun to function. I don't love that, but it's pretty much what you've gotta do if you want to get your own DA/SA Sig milled. Somehow the factory "RXP" cut slides don't have that issue..they must have changed the internals somewhat. There also aren't many companies out there who will mill a P22X, and it's a kind of pricy proposition compared to some others. I did shoot that gun before I sent the slide off, though and it's an absolute sweetheart...I can't wait for the slide to come back so I can try it with the optic. If you're not married to DA/SA the P320 gives you much simpler, cheaper, and easier to source options for optic-ready handguns.
My son settled on a CZ P09, that he's going to get cut for a Holosun 407c. This will necessitate milling off the rear dovetail (not a huge loss because the factory rear sight sits in there crooked
Out of the box I was pretty unimpressed with the P09. Besides the rear sight issue, the trigger was absolutely horrendous...long, heavy, and gritty. I put a McCarbo spring kit in it and did a full polish to the internals. It's now a different gun. It has a wonderfully smooth DA pull and a nice clean rolling SA break, and has been 100% reliable through a mix of over 500 rounds of factory ammo and reloads. I'm always a little apprehensive about changing springs due to light strikes, but that's not been an issue whatsoever with this McCarbo kit.
I've shot Shadows and they're fantastic guns. My son wanted one, but the P09 was a lot more achievable for him financially, and now that we've got the action cleaned up I'd say he made a solid choice. It's a polymer-framed gun, so it lacks the heft of the Shadow, but it fills the hand nicely and I'd say the action is 85-90% of a Shadow for less than 50% of the money. It also has a firing pin block, which the Shadow does not, and is something I consider a must for "social purposes."
In summations, or TL/DR: Berettas are great guns, but suck for optics. The P226 and the Shadow are both fine choices (although I don't like the lack of a firing pin block on the Shadow if you plan to use it as a defensive handgun), pick the one you like best, and maybe consider the P09.
Isn’t Langdon’s RDO system the lowest optical center to bore center systems out there? That’s one of their main market points, “Get low.” It may LOOK high because of how the 92 is shaped/designed, but it’s quite low compared to most other options…
Dot to bore distance, maybe...I don't know the measurements. It's definitely lower than the Beretta factory plates, but I'm not sure it's the lowest of any handgun mounting solution on the market. It's possible, but I'd be surprised if that's the case.
The contours of the 92 slide just leave so little room for a solid mounting solution, plus the firing pin block protruding out the top of the slide makes for a complicated setup. Then once you do get a dot on there, it looks awkward and poorly supported, and requires crazy tall and snaggy iron sights for a co-witness. The Langdon design is better than the Beretta factory solution for sure, but you'll pay for it, and I still think other handgun designs are more naturally conducive to optic mounting. I also really don't like solutions that require a plate, and prefer a direct-mill, as it eliminates the need for several fasteners, which tend to be a failure point.
You can get the Sig P229 as an SAO legion that is optic cut from the factory, and I believe you can get a 226 the same way. Of the guns you mentioned that would be my route.
That said you can also get them in DA/SA in legion model with optic cut.
www.sigsauer.com
Only down side is I believe they are cut for the Deltapoint Pro optic footprint.
That said you can also get them in DA/SA in legion model with optic cut.
P229 LEGION COMPACT
For those who demand the best, now we have something even better.
www.sigsauer.com
Only down side is I believe they are cut for the Deltapoint Pro optic footprint.
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