Sig P226 or Beretta M9A4 or CZ shadow 2?

[Twinsen]

LOLOLOLOL. I guess guys like Ernest Langdon don’t know how to properly hold/grip a pistol…

He's paid to alter his grip

 

[Basher]

He's paid to alter his grip

Please, explain further so all us Beretta shooters can learn what we’re doing wrong and why the 92 platform doesn’t accommodate a proper grip unless we’re paid to change it…

 

[Twinsen]

Please, explain further so all us Beretta shooters can learn what we’re doing wrong and why the 92 platform doesn’t accommodate a proper grip unless we’re paid to change it…

I don't know who Ernesto is... but there are enough pictures of him that he helps prove my point.
Here is Ernesto shooting a non-92:


here's Ernest shooting a 92:


See how he has to stick his thumb way out when shooting the 92. The 92 was designed during the era of teacup/weaver grip. Became popular after adopted by army in 1985. Thumbs forward grip (proper) pioneered in 1989-1990. The reason the 92 platform does not accommodate a proper grip is because of its giant and sensitive slide release. So, when shooting it, you need to make sure you don't get in its way otherwise you won't get last round hold open, or worse but rarer, you force the slide stop up, and the slide remains open even though you haven't shot all the rounds.

Accidently manipulating the slide stop on a 92 is easy compared to other models that you have to really try to inadvertently manipulate the slide stop. Think Glock, 1911, cz75, sig.

 

[Basher]

I don't know who Ernesto is... but there are enough pictures of him that he helps prove my point.
Here is Ernesto shooting a non-92:
View attachment 376465

here's Ernest shooting a 92:
View attachment 376467

See how he has to stick his thumb way out when shooting the 92. The 92 was designed during the era of teacup/weaver grip. Became popular after adopted by army in 1985. Thumbs forward grip (proper) pioneered in 1989-1990. The reason the 92 platform does not accommodate a proper grip is because of its giant and sensitive slide release. So, when shooting it, you need to make sure you don't get in its way otherwise you won't get last round hold open, or worse but rarer, you force the slide stop up, and the slide remains open even though you haven't shot all the rounds.

Accidently manipulating the slide stop on a 92 is easy compared to other models that you have to really try to inadvertently manipulate the slide stop. Think Glock, 1911, cz75, sig.

That’s a grip technique problem, not a firearm design problem lol. Ernest (not “Ernesto” lol) made his name shooting and smithing on the 92, and earned several prestigious titles while doing so. I kinda think the man knows enough about shooting, and would trust his choice in firearms, as well as his instruction related to proper grip technique, far sooner than I would a rando on the internet (no offense) who says the gun is wrong vs the shooter is wrong …

 

[Basher]

For what it’s worth, that first photo is a PX4, which in factory guise also has an easily engaged slide stop if you have too high a grip. Watch the video I linked. Lots of guys grip too high on the gun and give up grip real estate/traction. You want a high grip with your support hand, yes. But if you grip *too* high, or rotate too far forward, you sacrifice a good amount of grip force in the name of looking cool or whatever. If you’re not using up as much of the available grip space as you can, you’re doing it wrong. Thumbs forward is great, but there’s a difference between thumbs forward, and rotating your hand to the extreme. Your thumbs move independent of your palm for a reason.

I’m still not sure how you think Ernest is being paid to shoot with an improper grip to accommodate the 92. He runs his own company, nobody’s paying him but himself lol. And if he can shoot a 92 as fast and as accurately as he does, I assure you the gun is fine. You don’t have to like it, and I’m not saying it’s perfect, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with the 92’s control layout if you know how to use it properly.

If I wanted, I could argue that the P22X series of pistols from Sig is flawed because if you ride high thumb a la how you would riding the safety on a 1911, you’ll NEVER get a slide lock after the last round. Also you can get a dead trigger from crush gripping one too hard and lowering the decocker just far enough. Is that the gun’s fault? I think SOCOM’s successful use of the P228 for decade says no, but you do have to learn the proper manual of arms for those. Doesn’t make that grip “wrong,” just different.

 

[Twinsen]

That’s a grip technique problem, not a firearm design problem lol.

Wait, so Ernest has a grip technique problem now? I think his grip is right, which why he has to modify it to shoot the 92.

Ernest (not “Ernesto” lol) made his name shooting and smithing on the 92, and earned several prestigious titles while doing so. I kinda think the man knows more about shooting than you do

I don't dispute Ernest's record. You brought him up not me. He knows more than me, sure, but we both know we have to modify our grip if we want to shoot the 92 platform well
I don't want to modify my grip and prefer a firearm that doesn't force me to.

, and would trust his choice in firearms, as well as his instruction related to proper grip technique, far sooner than I would a rando on the internet who says the gun is wrong vs the shooter is wrong…

No argument here. Here's Earnest telling you to adjust your grip based on the firearm (holding a 92), specifically to watch out of the slide stop, either on top of it or under it... And if your thumb is not on top or under the slide stop... your thumb is sticking up

10:32 mark


Here's Ernest choosing his top 5 firearms.... spoiler... none of them are the 92 platform.



Look, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. If you like the 92 shoot it. If the original poster wants to choose it, great. I used to own one, I got rid of it for specific reasons. I thought would help the original poster in their choice. I won't comment any further.

 

[Twinsen]

I’m still not sure how you think Ernest is being paid to shoot with an improper grip to accommodate the 92. He runs his own company, nobody’s paying him but himself lol.

I didn't know who he was, just figured you were listing some random Beretta team member. But low and behold... here's Earnest's LinkedIn page. Notice he worked for Beretta:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ernest-langdon-9257ab6/details/experience/

Also here is a bio on Langdon Tactical about how he worked at Beretta, shot on Team Beretta, and collaborated with Beretta after he left the company to develop the PX4 compact, PX4 Carry, and a 92 Elite LTT:

10 Year Anniversary Landing Page

langdontactical.com

For real, done commenting...

 

[Codyf44]

Forgot about this thread haha….i actually ended up with the new m&p full and a threaded barrel….ended up buying/trading some other guns and got a m9a3 (may sell) and an fnx45 (I had 45 ammo and no gun) haha. I did shoot a cz sp01 and a ts2 at the range last week and shot them better than a prodigy, staccato, pdp, glock 19, m&p, m9a3, canil rival.

 

[Basher]

I didn't know who he was, just figured you were listing some random Beretta team member. But low and behold... here's Earnest's LinkedIn page. Notice he worked for Beretta:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ernest-langdon-9257ab6/details/experience/

Also here is a bio on Langdon Tactical about how he worked at Beretta, shot on Team Beretta, and collaborated with Beretta after he left the company to develop the PX4 compact, PX4 Carry, and a 92 Elite LTT:

10 Year Anniversary Landing Page

langdontactical.com

For real, done commenting...

*USED* to work for Beretta. He’s not bankrolled by them at present, thus not “paid by them to alter his grip.” Funny, a few hours ago you didn’t have a clue who “Ernesto” was…

My feelings aren’t hurt, people can run whatever they like. That’s the beauty of free will and having a choice. But your comment about the grip required to shoot a 92 being “wrong” in some way is, in itself, wrong. Plenty of people run Berettas with great effect, there’s nothing “wrong” about it. If you didn’t like it, then it “didn’t fit you,” not “you won’t like it because it requires an ‘improper grip.’”

Each brand/type of firearm requires some alteration of your grip or technique to accommodate its manual of arms, that doesn’t make any of them “wrong.”

As for Ernest not picking a 92, that’s because the PX4 is a more advanced and modernized pistol. If you’d asked him *before* the PX4, I’m sure the 92 would have made the cut. As it is, the PX4 requires the same grip technique as the 92. The controls are literally in the same places.

 

[BigMoose]

Always get the Beretta, sigs are ugly.. the CZ is weird.