Should We Help Georgia?

[flagtag]

The one thing i have seen in how every one seems to talk about Russia's military is that everyone takes them so lightly just because they are not the huge nation they became after WWII. At the same time you are talking about a nation that in WWII not only held Germany at bay but pushed them back hard. even thought they were lacking resources like an ample supply of weapons and trained solders. They were only giving every other person a out dated rifle (and by out dated I mean not top of the line. though this rifle is still used today) and the men in between the guys with rifles ammo. Now they do not lack weapons. And true they have lost 13 plans but what kind is the real question. The newest MIG is more than a (equal) match for the F-16 and F-15 fighters we have in the air right now. And are we better trained I would say most likely but going toe to toe with a nation that could make a larger army on the ground (note I am saying ground troops) well trained or not is not the wisest of choices. Try to recall what Russia can do on the ground even against a far superior force (in training and technology). Also I would not call the Cuban Missile Crisis a show of weakness on Russia’s part that was a well played bluff for us and Russia nor us wanted to test this bluff. (and yes I do mean bluff) Russia nor us wanted to have to actually use our ICBM’s. because we all knew the end result. So should we help with training I can see this been something we could do. But money we simply can not with the instability of our economy. And as for going toe to toe with then that’s just saying lets start another world war.

I don't think it's that anyone is taking Russia's forces lightly. I think that it is because of their (the government, not the people) violent and evil intentions to attack weaker nations and "conquer" lands that they once held - and lost, and push their agenda to other nations that begs the need to stop them (Putin). They have already been encouraged by the failure of SOMEONE to step in and help Georgia. They have just gotten bolder and are making even more threats (to bomb Poland) for signing the agreement for the anti-missle equipment. The "bully" is getting out of hand.

Maybe there won't be a third world war if we don't assist the victimized counties, but, I believe that is what Russia is moving towards - even without our involvement. They see us as weak, tired, and too strung out to be able to stop them alone. Plus, they are counting on the American public demanding that our government stay out so that they may proceed unobstructed. They are counting on us to help them in their quest. (They watch the news also.) They are counting on the "soft" American's desire for a carefree pampered lifestyle to pressure our government to stay out of the fight.

 

[flagtag]

Whether we do anything now or not, Russia is going to push us into a world war. We have to do something now. Something harsh. Regardless what they do, they can't be allowed to trample nations.

Our forces are far supeior to theirs, more numbers or not. Their newest mig is a match for the F-16 and F-18 because that's what they built it to fight. But not the F22. And their tanks are no match for the Abrams Tanks. They don't have Drones like we do. And their troops don't have the Combat experiance ours have. That's what matters. But again, I reiterate. THEY WON'T HESITATE TO USE NUKES!!! They will do it for Mother Russia and do it with pride. They do have moral issues, EX KGB military people with their own agendas, and moral issues that our forces would impose on their troops.

The CMC wasn't a Bluff. It was a Test. Which we more or less passed. But those days of a President who will man up will be long gone if Obama becomes President. That is why this is happening. They are testing us again. And they know McCain will man up, Obama wont.

I believe they are also trying to influence the election. If they can frighten enough Americans, who don't want more war, into voting for Obama then Russia can easily walk all over Obama. (Just about like what happened in Spain - the train bombing) You might have noticed that Russia waited until just before the Convention to make their move - just a few months before the election.

 

[Panama]

The Russian's have no answer for The Armed Forces of the United States of America!
PERIOD!
We are not stupid enough to invade their country!
But if they continue to go after their neighboring countries, we can and we will, throw their sorry Communist asses out and send them home with their Communist tails between their hind legs!


America 's Most Advanced Fighter Aircraft for the 21st Century!!

They're a titanium and carbon fiber dagger. They're so advanced that if their on-board locator is switched off even our own satellites can lose track of them.

They're the first military aircraft ever built that is equipped with a 'Black-out - Button'. What that means is this...

The best conditioned fighter pilots are capable of maintaining consciousness up to in the vicinity of 15+ G. The Raptor is capable of making 22+ G. turns. If some day an adversary builds a missile that is capable of catching up to one of these airplanes and a Raptor pilot sees that a strike is imminent, he hits the 'b.o.b.' and the airplane makes a virtual U-turn, leaving the missile to pass right on by. They know that in the process he'll temporarily lose consciousness, so the Raptor then automatically comes back to straight and level flight until he wakes back up.

 

[SavageEagle]

They're the first military aircraft ever built that is equipped with a 'Black-out - Button'. What that means is this...

The best conditioned fighter pilots are capable of maintaining consciousness up to in the vicinity of 15+ G. The Raptor is capable of making 22+ G. turns. If some day an adversary builds a missile that is capable of catching up to one of these airplanes and a Raptor pilot sees that a strike is imminent, he hits the 'b.o.b.' and the airplane makes a virtual U-turn, leaving the missile to pass right on by. They know that in the process he'll temporarily lose consciousness, so the Raptor then automatically comes back to straight and level flight until he wakes back up.

I knew they could make u-turns of that nature as they shown that many times on the Military Channel. But I had no idea about the BOB. That's freaking AWESOME!!! GO GET EM BOYS!

 

[flagtag]

I think Putin is counting on the people of the U.S. to keep the government from using it agains the bad guys.

 

[Panama]

Here is a link to a Russian or Georgian message board it contains several pictures of the "war" some are from the front lines.
I can not read Russian or Georgian or whatever language it is, but the pictures speak for themselves!

Yes I still think we need to help them in some way?

WARNING SOME OF THESE IMAGES ARE NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART!

Àëüìàíàõ «Èñêóññòâî âîéíû» :: Ïðîñìîòð òåìû - Âîéíà â Þæíîé Îñåòèè: 89 ôîòîãðàôèé Àðêàäèÿ Áàá÷åíêî

 

[Paul]

Here is a link to a Russian or Georgian message board it contains several pictures of the "war" some are from the front lines.
I can not read Russian or Georgian or whatever language it is, but the pictures speak for themselves!

Yes I still think we need to help them in some way?

WARNING SOME OF THESE IMAGES ARE NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART!

Àëüìàíàõ «Èñêóññòâî âîéíû» :: Ïðîñìîòð òåìû - Âîéíà â Þæíîé Îñåòèè: 89 ôîòîãðàôèé Àðêàäèÿ Áàá÷åíêî

dang....thanks for the link

 

[flagtag]

Here is a link to a Russian or Georgian message board it contains several pictures of the "war" some are from the front lines.
I can not read Russian or Georgian or whatever language it is, but the pictures speak for themselves!

Yes I still think we need to help them in some way?

WARNING SOME OF THESE IMAGES ARE NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART!

Àëüìàíàõ «Èñêóññòâî âîéíû» :: Ïðîñìîòð òåìû - Âîéíà â Þæíîé Îñåòèè: 89 ôîòîãðàôèé Àðêàäèÿ Áàá÷åíêî

Poo! "Service temporarily unavailable" Maybe later.

 

[SavageEagle]

those are images I would compare to if Iraq and Vietnam were combined. Urban warfare with mass murder. Sanzo, I'm not bashing you by any means because I do respect your opinion and I believe we DO need to take care of ourselves. BUT anyone who says let them be, let Russia continue, and lets stay outta this... I would almost go so far as to say they are very selfish. I'm not saying you are because we have MANY problems here at home, but how can we let this happen to someone who is fighting and dying right beside us in IRAQ and AFGAN????? Just talking about Russia invading Georgia seems small and insignificant until you actually SEE the atrocity in full color, up close. If I were President, I'd be sending as much AID to them as possible.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Here is a link to a Russian or Georgian message board it contains several pictures of the "war" some are from the front lines.
I can not read Russian or Georgian or whatever language it is, but the pictures speak for themselves!

Yes I still think we need to help them in some way?

WARNING SOME OF THESE IMAGES ARE NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART!

Àëüìàíàõ «Èñêóññòâî âîéíû» :: Ïðîñìîòð òåìû - Âîéíà â Þæíîé Îñåòèè: 89 ôîòîãðàôèé Àðêàäèÿ Áàá÷åíêî

Here ya go, an English translation:

CLICK HERE

 

[MilitaryArms]

I thought this picture was interesting. Here a Russian is holding up a US made (1970's vintage) LAW rocket. Are we giving the Georgians these relics? I hope not... most of them won't fire as they're way past their service life.

 

[flagtag]

those are images I would compare to if Iraq and Vietnam were combined. Urban warfare with mass murder. Sanzo, I'm not bashing you by any means because I do respect your opinion and I believe we DO need to take care of ourselves. BUT anyone who says let them be, let Russia continue, and lets stay outta this... I would almost go so far as to say they are very selfish. I'm not saying you are because we have MANY problems here at home, but how can we let this happen to someone who is fighting and dying right beside us in IRAQ and AFGAN????? Just talking about Russia invading Georgia seems small and insignificant until you actually SEE the atrocity in full color, up close. If I were President, I'd be sending as much AID to them as possible.

I finally got through. Some of them, I had seen before. How can anyone who has seen anything like this, NOT want to help in any way possible?! I am SO angry! And a little sick to my stomach.
What if that was us? (The victims) Would any of us really say we should stay out of it? "It's not our problem". ? RIGHT!

 

[SavageEagle]

I thought this picture was interesting. Here a Russian is holding up a US made (1970's vintage) LAW rocket. Are we giving the Georgians these relics? I hope not... most of them won't fire as they're way past their service life.

You are right they are past their service life, but I'm sure if kept in proper storage they would still fire, right? I'm sure we have supplied them with many arms in the past. We had trade agreements with many of the breakaway states of the former USSR shortly after they became free nations. I know some of them weren't very receptive of our help but Ukraine and Georgia were. We sold them ALOT of arms in our aging inventories along with many other Countries. We had to sell them or destroy them so as to make room for newer better weapons.

We have to help these people. We need to shift our economy into military manufacturing mode which will help our economy and help us win a war with Russia.

Hell the world population is growing too fast anyway.... J/K

 

[MilitaryArms]

The last time I fired a LAW was in 1988. The lot we were getting rid of were built in 1974 (I believe that's getting pretty close to the last year they were manufactured). Out of the 20 or so we fired, over half of them failed to ignite and EOD was called out to get rid of them.

I never had problems with the AT4's though.

 

[sanzo87]

I never said that we should not provide some kind of aid. I think we should help train the troops and help arm them with most anything we can.(with in reason) I believe that the best form of military teaching for them would be more along the lines of that of the IDF.(or our spec ops) i just do not think that we should be directly evolved face to face against Russia. unless it is a black ops kind of thing.

 

[jeremy]

We should have let Patton do it right, after WW II. Damn politicians. Think of the money saved if the USSR had never come about.

 

[Norm Dicks]

We should have let Patton do it right, after WW II. Damn politicians. Think of the money saved if the USSR had never come about.

Hindsight is 20/20!
So many things, so many things, if I only had the chance to go back in time.

 

[SavageEagle]

this has been a dormant issue for a long time and being that the election is overshadowing even Iraq... Has anyone heard anything about Russia's "TakeOver the World" conquest lately?

 

[turnandshoot4]

Last I heard Russia was pulling back.