Should We Help Georgia?

[Bigum1969]

I also believe that Russia is flexing its muscles and taking advantage of the fact that the US is war weary at this point.

They are also trying to build back some portion of their former status as a super power. They fell hard when communism failed. Russia is trying to prove they are still a world power to be reckoned with. They also know that no one is going to stop them right now.

 

[flagtag]

Hurray for our savior, Obama! (NOT!)
I'm afraid that too many countries see us as a divided country, therefor weakend and vunerable. Add to that, our failing economy.......
Once the election is over, we might see some bigger problems, depending on who gets in. I believe our enemies are watching this election process as closely as we are. Watching and waiting.

 

[flagtag]

We can't put nothing past the Russians. They always have SOMETHING cooking in their oven and have always been about recreation of the former USSR. And like you said, look how many illegals we have in this Country. Oh wait, you can't, we don't know their numbers or who even is legal or illegal! I talked to some kid today at work who slipped that he was illegal and he wasn't Mexican either. He was from some Country in Southern America. I'm tellin ya, call me crazy, but we are at risk, for the first time in a Century, of a full scale invasion of this Country. Not just an Attack. An Invasion. Our borders are NOT secure. Land and sea. We must be vigilant. We will not tire. We will not falter. We will not fail.

We must not fear, but stand strong and let these Countries know we won't tolerate this. The world must unite (Not under the UnifiedNuckleheads or NAT-A-HO) to let Russia know this is not who 21st century Countries behave and it will not be tolerated. Olympic Games or not.

I used to have a couple sites bookmarked in which illegals (Mexican) talked about "taking back their country". They HATE us! I went back to the sites and both had been removed. (I wanted to keep an eye on them. Don't know who pulled them.) And there are how many illegals here now?! Milllions! How many of these are associated with the groups from those two sites? We can't even depend on our own government to protect us from them, because our law enforcement aren't even allowed to ask them if they're here illegally!. (Got some hip boots? We're in some deep doo doo!)

 

[45calibre]

i dont really know whats going on but before we go into another war we should try to get russia into NATO

 

[flagtag]

i dont really know whats going on but before we go into another war we should try to get russia into NATO

One of the many "reasons" that Russia invaded Georgia was because they (Russia) didn't want Georgia to be admitted into NATO. So, how would trying to get Russia (USSR) into NATO solve the problem?

 

[Paul]

i dont really know whats going on but before we go into another war we should try to get russia into NATO

I would go and do some research and then come back with an educated response. Not trying to be an ass btw.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I would go and do some research and then come back with an educated response. Not trying to be an ass btw.

I swear, it's something in the water.

 

[Disposable Heart]

That's why I drink bottled!

As mentioned before, I would like to have "hard" evidence of naval movements, not information from someone's blog (I like reading Alex, but I take it with not just a grain of salt, but the whole damn mine)

Russia would never enter into an agreement to go into NATO. Its a matter of national pride, a "we can defend ourselves and dont need western folks telling us what to do" attitude that has kept them at arms length in many of the world's escapades after the Cold War ended. They have been taking an isolationistic policy in regards to European affairs until recently, to which they thrust themselves into the arena of Balkan and Eurasian politics. Also, think of this: Russia switching to .223? Or would they force that cool 9x??mm round on Europe? (God, I want an AS VAL in the worst way, no idea why, I usually dont indulge in fantasies of things I will never have, but that rifle is soo cool!)

In regards to WW3: Seriously? No. People need to stop watching Red Dawn hoping the Russians land in their back yard so they can be a "hero". Russia would enter into aggressive diplomacy with the US, telling us to take a hike, how are you to tell us about meddling in other's affairs (Iraq) and so on. This has been Russia's role in recent statecraft, particularly with NATO involvement in the Balkan schism. Military action on either end would be absolutely ridiculous and not even an option considering the amount of damage (economic and political) that would ensue on both sides. While governments in regards to managing their own citizens is illogical, nation level statecraft is much more logical and straight forward.

Micro-rant XP: Also, please do not call current Russia the USSR. Politically and socially, they arent that anymore, they are either the Russian Federation or just Russia. Cold war names used in regards to them are relics of a time gone past of battling the Commies. We arent fighting communism anymore (unless you count South America ), we are facing a large, industrially complex, technologically complex, socially difficult, organized nation that is democratic and republic like in many of it's governmental actions and administrations, not stalinist disorganized conventional forces.

Admittedly, US vs. Russia in a limited war (not cold or conventional) would be an interesting thing. War with deniability and constant press coverage. An unsung war so to speak. A war, that if fought, would be on unit levels, not entire platoons, minor skirmishes, followed by huge apologies by one government or the other, claiming training incident or accidental discharges. Very interesting indeed.

 

[BloodEclipse]

We arent fighting communism anymore (unless you count South America ), we are facing a large, industrially complex, technologically complex, socially difficult, organized nation that is democratic and republic like in many of it's governmental actions and administrations, not stalinist disorganized conventional forces.

While Russians are enjoying some freedoms, the handwriting is on the wall for this to change. Putin is clearly in charge. Putin likes things the way they use to be and seems intent on moving Russia backwards. They are flush with Oil dollars and may think they can break us with another Cold War they way President Reagan broke them. Last time I checked China is still Communist

 

[SavageEagle]

Roossia may not be communistic anymore, but they are still controlled by the same Stalinistic views they once were. Only today they are smarter about it... somewhat. For most of the Cold War Russia has been playin Catchup. Sure, they had their advances above and beyond us, but those were few and far between. Don't rule out Conventional War with Russia. It is a very real possibility and a very scary one at that.

As for the Red Dawn comment... Yea, that would be interesting, but no I don't wish that on us. That would be awful. But Red Dawn wasn't what I was refering to. Imagine if Mexico wanted to overthrown the USA for taking TEXAS from them... Just as plausible as the British coming for their back taxes... (See funny pic thread...) What kinda damage could all the illegals do assuming they were all apart of the plan? Now think about how many of the illegals in the Country AREN'T from Mexico... I can guarantee you there are plenty of Russians here illegally. Like someone said, the police don't exactly check everyones ID's...

But we do need to do more than Sanctions against Russian for this Atrocity. Not many Countries will sign on to this.

 

[Bigum1969]

i dont really know whats going on but before we go into another war we should try to get russia into NATO

I believe NATO was founded to deal with the former Soviet threat.

Doesn't seem like Russia would gain entry into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

 

[Panama]

It looks more and more like Putin has the Russian people brainwashed into believing he is a good guy and is doing nothing wrong!
That to me is VERY concerning!

Maybe they are all drinking the Russian version of Liberal koolaide, I think it's called........are you ready "PUTINTANG"!

 

[flagtag]

It looks more and more like Putin has the Russian people brainwashed into believing he is a good guy and is doing nothing wrong!
That to me is VERY concerning!

Maybe they are all drinking the Russian version of Liberal koolaide, I think it's called........are you ready "PUTINTANG"!

(Groan!)

 

[flagtag]

That's why I drink bottled!

As mentioned before, I would like to have "hard" evidence of naval movements, not information from someone's blog (I like reading Alex, but I take it with not just a grain of salt, but the whole damn mine)

Russia would never enter into an agreement to go into NATO. Its a matter of national pride, a "we can defend ourselves and dont need western folks telling us what to do" attitude that has kept them at arms length in many of the world's escapades after the Cold War ended. They have been taking an isolationistic policy in regards to European affairs until recently, to which they thrust themselves into the arena of Balkan and Eurasian politics. Also, think of this: Russia switching to .223? Or would they force that cool 9x??mm round on Europe? (God, I want an AS VAL in the worst way, no idea why, I usually dont indulge in fantasies of things I will never have, but that rifle is soo cool!)

In regards to WW3: Seriously? No. People need to stop watching Red Dawn hoping the Russians land in their back yard so they can be a "hero". Russia would enter into aggressive diplomacy with the US, telling us to take a hike, how are you to tell us about meddling in other's affairs (Iraq) and so on. This has been Russia's role in recent statecraft, particularly with NATO involvement in the Balkan schism. Military action on either end would be absolutely ridiculous and not even an option considering the amount of damage (economic and political) that would ensue on both sides. While governments in regards to managing their own citizens is illogical, nation level statecraft is much more logical and straight forward.

Micro-rant XP: Also, please do not call current Russia the USSR. Politically and socially, they arent that anymore, they are either the Russian Federation or just Russia. Cold war names used in regards to them are relics of a time gone past of battling the Commies. We arent fighting communism anymore (unless you count South America ), we are facing a large, industrially complex, technologically complex, socially difficult, organized nation that is democratic and republic like in many of it's governmental actions and administrations, not stalinist disorganized conventional forces.

Admittedly, US vs. Russia in a limited war (not cold or conventional) would be an interesting thing. War with deniability and constant press coverage. An unsung war so to speak. A war, that if fought, would be on unit levels, not entire platoons, minor skirmishes, followed by huge apologies by one government or the other, claiming training incident or accidental discharges. Very interesting indeed.

Well, in the first place, I am 58 yo, a mother and grandmother - FAR from a teeny-bopper "hero" type. So, no, I am not hopeing that Russia will drop from the sky. But I DO keep my eyes (and ears) open and try to pick up on the little things. I do not believe what our "leaders" tell us necessarily - that everything is hunky-dory (THEY will protect us and keep our country safe. How many illegals are in our country now? Hmmm?)

Second: I refer to the USSR because Putin himself stated that he would like to go back to that era. (And it is heading there)
He (Putin) stated that the day that the wall fell, was the saddest in the history of "his" country. (So, the name of the country may not have been changed - yet, but the "policy" is moving it there.)

 

[Greg.B]

A couple of the comments made me remember this from Slate.com...sorry if it's out of place!

 

[flagtag]

A couple of the comments made me remember this from Slate.com...sorry if it's out of place!

Good one!

 

[Paul]

A couple of the comments made me remember this from Slate.com...sorry if it's out of place!

That's a good one!

 

[Disposable Heart]

I do agree with the point that Sanctions against Russia will not work in the slightest. They have enough money to get by and get things from where ever they want. China? Naw, communist in name only. That country has been penetrated by capitalism and its a matter of time before they will cave into the building social pressure there. The country exports things to capitalist countries, communism is done there, run it's course.

Regarding Red Dawn comment: I apologize for anyone I may have "irritated" by this. Keeping an eye on the world around you is critical, I agree. However, the "news" that people come to bear on many forums (not this one in particular) is meerly someone's blog (third hand or terciary information sources) or the ranting of a lunatic (like Alex, but God Damn! Its fun to read, would make an awesome book to combine all the stuff posted there together). I get my news sources from more than 7 sources:
Reuters
BBC
MSNBC
FOX (Terrible by the way, but a good contrast)
Associated Press (information direct from reporting sources, not the news agencies themselves, almost like a government sitrep)
CNN
Nihama Prefectural Harbor Area News Network (a throw back from my time in Japan, I like to know what happens in my ol' neighborhood)

Why anyone believes that trusting one news source or the government for info is beyond me, that is why I get them from a variety of sources and then form a world view from the conglomeration of info recieved.

Putin? Putin is an interesting man, to say the least. However, he isnt an idiot or a nutjob as many believe him to be. He is pandering to the hardliners in his country. These same hardliners hold not only voting power, but came out the richest when the wall fell. These are the people that ran off with the Communist government's money when the wall fell and took that which wasnt bolted down when democracy was called for. It would be like someone running for Prez in this country and telling the folks with money or influence what they want to hear. Its simply: Russian Politics, not terribly different from ours in this aspect of pandering! He is only doing what candidates in this country do: Appeal to the voters with money, not the average voters themselves. Putin tends to flip flop as well. In regards to pipeline building in the Ukraine, he fought tooth and nail against "environmentalists", but when the government approved it, he went on a campaign for a "green" Russia. Putin=white Obama is a relative comparison. But Putin has already won his election...and doesnt hold Kenyan citizenship! Russia isnt attempting to become the USSR again (keep in mind RUSSIA, not Putin), its playing its old cards again. However, its a similar view to what they did during the Cold War and before. Look at Russian history BEFORE the Cold War and one will gain an insight into Russian strongman, beat a shoe on the table politics (Kruschev was another interesting fellow ). They are about bluster and shows of force. This is a Russian trademark, extending before even the Communist Revolution!

 

[Disposable Heart]

A couple of the comments made me remember this from Slate.com...sorry if it's out of place!

Funny thing is, Nick at Premier Arms actually had a young guy come into the store thinking this!!! Ask him sometime about it!!

 

[SavageEagle]

Nuke em all, wait 50 years, make a HUGE strip mall!



SERIOUSLY JUST JOKING!!!!!!!!! DON'T SHOOT!!!!!!!