should felons be able to purchase weapons??

[ADT knights]

I am sorry but if you are either too stupid, or too arrogant to break the same law 3 times and didn't get it the first two times shouldn't the punishment get stiffer? Hell for that matter if you don't have a license it's for a good reason so why are you driving anyway?

You can get your license suspended for having a simple traffic violation. You pay it.... Later down the road you get a letter saying you didn't bye bye license... Even though they paid the fine for the violation someone else messed up so now they are being wrongfully punished (this really happens). You have to get to work somehow and a 25 minute commute in a car isn't realistic on a bike and there is no public transportation from outside the city where I am to downtown Indy. Seems like a good reason for driving to me.

 

[NYFelon]

Why did you get a felony for a fist fight? And yes to your question.

Now, I have to wonder what someone who uses a screen name of a "felon" is wanting to do here? Are you proud of being a felon or something?

I chose the name because of the juxtaposition it poses. If you ever met me, you'd never imagine me to be a "violent felony offender". I'm your normal, everyday suburbanite dad. And the discussion was on felons and their right (or not) to possess firearms. It seemed a fitting name. And to answer your question, no, I am not proud of being a felon. I am embarrassed and ashamed of it. Not for myself, but for any social ramifications it may bring upon my family.

The original charge levied against me was NYS PNL (New York State Penal Law) 120.08 -Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or
emergency medical services professional.

The way I understood it from how my lawyer explained it to me, was that he got it dropped to Assault in the Second Degree NYS PNL 120.05, because I had no way of knowing the man was a police officer, because he never identified himself, nor could I have had reason to believe he was, as he was himself drunk and disorderly. 120.05 states that if you cause "serious physical harm", with no further explanation of what that harm needs include, you are qualified for that charge. I'm guessing it was the broken nose and the tooth.

That and a DA who is nothing more than a politician seeking career advancement sees a slamdunk conviction. So bang. Conviction.

i will bet about every gun owner on this site COULD have ended up in your situation. everyone does dumb stuff when they are teenagers (18+) some get caught some dont.

sure folks will get on and say "i never did anything at all" and some may very well have not done anything. most have and got lucky

I would say the same, and I thank you for your honesty.

i think he joined because of this thread that was probably pulled up on google

Indeed. I'm currently writing a paper on gun rights for an English requisite course I'm taking. This thread popped up in one of my myriad searches. It's a topic in which I have a personal interest, so I joined.

Every free person should have the right to protect oneself. If you are free, you should not have any restrictions on rights.

Amen.

With the exception of the second amendment.

Either you support the constitution or you don't. You can't pick which parts you agree with. Maybe read the second again, I haven't found exceptions for felons.

and again, a logical stance.

I don't know why everyone is bashing NYFelon. If you read his original post it says why he's here and your exactly right it was a subject he's searching on google. Anyhow, I feel for you man. It sound like a pretty effed up situation that anybody could have been in. I've had charges levied against me that got dropped but they still come up on background checks which causes me employement problems so I can kind of relate. I also did quite a bit of institution time as a juvenile so I can also relate to the incarceration experience.
I don't agree with the manditory minimums, and the restriction of rights applied in such a blind manner. There should definitely be some recourse open to you and people in similar situations. Owning and carrying a firearm is all about defending yourself and family so why people aren't seeing that is beyond me.
II

Thanks for the welcome. And thanks for the understanding. I don't think I'm actually getting bashed, this is a very hotly contested debate, even amongst gun-right supporters. They see their rights being eroded daily, and wonder why if they have to deal with it, why should [blanket terminology applied] felons have rights they have to fight to keep? It's understandable. Besides, it's the internet, no harm done.

Because the person whose ass got kicked ended up being a drunk off duty officer according to his story.

Not sure of the intent here. But yes, technically, that's what it boils down to it, in a nutshell.

 

[E5RANGER375]

if you paid your debt then own whatever you want

 

[wag1911]

Similar thread here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._on_the_felons_and_firearms_in_wisconsin.html

As I said in that thread, some believe that a law is going to deter or prevent a violent criminal from obtaining or carrying a gun. If NYFelon was indeed wanting to commit a crime with a gun, no law is going to stop him, and I don't believe our Founders would have barred him the ability to protect himself or his family as a free man. He is a free man. If he were thought to be a danger to society then society should have enacted a stiffer sentence.

Our Founders guaranteed the right as absolute. Since then it has been trampled on by the 'collectivists' who want to write their own rules (and not follow them) and today is treated as a privilege that can be taken away.

In a free nation, government does not have the authority to forbid me from speaking because I might shout “fire” in a crowded theater. EVEN IF I HAVE DONE SO BEFORE.

Government is ONLY here to assure that the full force of the law can be brought against me if I discharge that right in a manner that threatens the rights of others. It does not have the authority to deny me rights for fear I might misuse them again.

If you think the justice system is screwed up, and it is, then do your part to fix it. However, taking someone's rights away even after they have served their penalty is wrong. Stop using the justice system as an excuse for a reason to violate a person's civil rights. FIX THE DAMN SYSTEM instead.

 

[45fan]

There was a time in this country that some states gave released inmates a horse and a rifle when they left the prison. I can maybe understand restricting handguns to felons, but the right to defend yourself and your family should not be taken away.

I also agree that the label of felony is tossed around WAY too much anymore.

 

[jeremy]

It is far easier for a Felon to Purchase a Firearm than it is for a Legal Citizen now anyway...

 

[ATF Consumer]

What does it say about a man, when he wants to infringe upon another's rights?

 

[NYFelon]

Only criminals and tyrants fear armed men.

Evidently most here are not criminals. So for those opposed to the restoration of rights upon completion of a sentence imposed, it only leaves one option.

 

[jeremy]

Only criminals and tyrants fear armed men.

Evidently most here are not criminals. So for those opposed to the restoration of rights upon completion of a sentence imposed, it only leaves one option.

I think I would not mind being a Tyrant...

 

[IndianaGTI]

New user casts thread necromancy.

I came across this forum while doing some research for a term paper. I was interested in the topic, and surprised by some of the posts. I'd like to share my story. I know some of you won't believe me, but whatever.

It's December of 1997. I, and some of my friends are celebrating our buddy's graduation from Parris Island. We're at our local bar, and we're all regulars. There's 8 of us, and we're drinking and snacking on some bar grub. We're just generally having a good time. Maybe an hour or so after we sat down, some loud mouth guy that's obviously already 3 sheets to the wind comes over, and starts causing problems. Yelling and telling us we're disturbing "his bar". I get up from the booth we're in, and try and talk with the guy. I explain to him why we're there, and we're all just exuberant to see our pal again, and proud of him for what he's accomplished. The guy seems to accept this and goes his own way.

About half an hour later, he comes back with the same schpiel. Someone had told a long time inside joke, and we all laughed pretty uproariously. He's up in our buddy's face, screaming at him, in his dress blues and all. At this point it's obvious the guy is looking for a fight. I'm not usually a fighter, but I get up and confront him. He takes the first swing, but he's so drunk it may as well have come in the mail. So, I proceed to toss him an ass whuppin'. In the process (according to the police report) I broke his nose, and knocked out one of his teeth.

The cops are called, and I figure there really shouldn't be any trouble. After all, I'm a regular here, the guy took the first swing, and I have 7 other witnesses to corroborate my story. The cops come, start asking questions, and making a report. It's at this time, the guy whips out his shield. Turns out I just beat the snot out of an off duty NYPD officer. With no hesitation whatsoever, I'm tackled, pepper sprayed, handcuffed and arrested. The charge is Assaulting a Police Officer. A Class B felony in NY, punishable by 5 - 25 years in prison, judge's discretion. The DA agrees to plead it down to Assault II, a Class D felony, 1 1/2 - 7 years. My lawyer tries for an Assault III plea, which is a class A Misdemeanor. The DA says no dice. So I'm convicted, and sentenced to one year in prison. I do my time, and get out. But now I'm a felon.

Fastforward 12 years. I'm 34. I'm married with a 9 year old son. I own a home, and work as a public safety auditor for a utility company. I go to school at nights, working on my degree in Engineering Technology. I coach my sons soccer team. I pay my taxes every year. Are you honestly going to tell me that justice was served in this case? I obey the law. Since that time my only interaction with law enforcement has been the occasional traffic ticket, and to file a police report for a cell phone stolen out of my car.

Do I sound like a threat to society? But yet, I'm a violent felon. IMHO, we're too quick to judge in any situation where the term "felon" is involved. Frankly, there are so many laws on the books in this country, and they vary from state to state, odds are every single person on this board has committed a felony. You just weren't caught, or charged.

I own no firearms, I am proscribed by both state and federal law, because I am a felon. But I have a home and a family to protect. How do you propose I do that? Have I not paid my debt? Why should I, as a free man, not retain the same rights as every one of you?

Just food for thought.

Apparently, you got up in a Court of Law and swore that you knowingly battered a police officer. Unless you are now swearing that you additionaly committed the felony of perjury, then you were sentenced for what you admitted you did.

Funny how that works. You tell the judge that you knowingly and intentionally assaulted a police officer and he sentences you for that.

Just food for thought.

 

[ATM]

NYFelon, sorry to hear about your story.

You paid the price for a trumped up crime with a year of your freedom.

It's lunacy to reason that your RKBA in this case should still be forever denied.

I'd still have the wife get a gun and gunvault as even delayed access is still better than nothing.

 

[NYFelon]

Apparently, you got up in a Court of Law and swore that you knowingly battered a police officer. Unless you are now swearing that you additionaly committed the felony of perjury, then you were sentenced for what you admitted you did.

Funny how that works. You tell the judge that you knowingly and intentionally assaulted a police officer and he sentences you for that.

Just food for thought.

I knowingly battered a police officer? I defended myself from a belligerent drunk who took a swing at me. So because he's a police officer by occupation, that precludes him from accepting the circumstances of his actions when his judgement is clouded by what was obviously too many drinks? That's an interesting perspective.

NYFelon, sorry to hear about your story.

You paid the price for a trumped up crime with a year of your freedom.

It's lunacy to reason that your RKBA in this case should still be forever denied.

I'd still have the wife get a gun and gunvault as even delayed access is still better than nothing.

Thank you. Life is what it is. Nothing I can do about it now, except possibly be active politically, which I am.

 

[wag1911]

It occurs to me that a free man who wants to do things the right way is not allowed to do so by law. However, if he decides to break the law he would actually be enjoying more freedom. How f**ked up is that?

 

[The Bubba Effect]

If your gonna let them free range back in society, then give them the same rights as everyone else...Otherwise don't let them out in the first place.

NYfelon is right. Too many laws on the books and too much variation. That "ignorance of the law is no excuse" seems pretty excusable to me nowadays.

Money or not, if they aren't fit to be released from prison into society, then don't let them out. Stop picking and choosing what rights they get to live with.

I'm with christman on this one. If they're too dangerous to be a free citizen with all the rights that go with it, they're too dangerous to be out walking the streets.

I cannot abide by creating a legal underclass of people who are "wink and nod free".

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Apparently, you got up in a Court of Law and swore that you knowingly battered a police officer. Unless you are now swearing that you additionaly committed the felony of perjury, then you were sentenced for what you admitted you did.

Funny how that works. You tell the judge that you knowingly and intentionally assaulted a police officer and he sentences you for that.

Just food for thought.

Really not trying to pick a fight with you as I'm pretty sure that you are a reasonable person (not to mention a fair shot), but how are you getting that he "knowingly battered a police officer"? Does that require him to know the guy's a cop before he batters the guy? Does it matter if the cop threw the first punch unprovoked?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I knowingly battered a police officer? I defended myself from a belligerent drunk who took a swing at me. So because he's a police officer by occupation, that precludes him from accepting the circumstances of his actions when his judgement is clouded by what was obviously too many drinks? That's an interesting perspective.

I believe they think that you plead guilty in a plea agreement. Which I was going to ask if that was the case. If you did plead, you did in fact admit to battery(although not necessarily on a POS cop). Unless you plead nolo contendre.

But as I have said before, and as many others here have said. Once your a free man, you should be free to exercise your rights as a free man.

 

[nate1865]

NYFelon - get into black powder. Problem solved.

From what I know you can own all the black powder guns you can get your hands on. Get a black powder revolver.

Better than nothing, and keeps you legal (from what I understand).

It may suck that you feel you were railroaded by the blue wall, but we also don't get to hear the other side of the story so we have to trust the system made an accurate determination.

I think it makes sense to take firearms away from violent felons. Prison isn't for rehabilitation - it is for punishment of crimes. Lobby to have the law changed - you can still do that.

ETA: And as someone mentioned above, you can't plead guilty without admitting your guilt to a judge with your own words in several different ways. I've seen someone plead guilty before. They nail it down.

 

[Palarran]

Prison isn't for rehabilitation - it is for punishment of crimes.

This is a common misconception. At least in our state, as per the Indiana Constitution (the same document that guarantees us the right to bear arms):

Article 1, Section 18. The penal code shall be founded on the principles of reformation, and not of vindictive justice.

That being the case, given the information presented here, I would say that our poster has been reformed. I feel that a reasonable person would believe that it would be safe for him to have his rights reinstated. But it appears in his circumstances that this is highly unlikely, unfortunately.

 

[NYFelon]

I believe they think that you plead guilty in a plea agreement. Which I was going to ask if that was the case. If you did plead, you did in fact admit to battery(although not necessarily on a POS cop). Unless you plead nolo contendre.

But as I have said before, and as many others here have said. Once your a free man, you should be free to exercise your rights as a free man.

Still up writing this paper. gyarg.

But yes, I accepted the plea deal, since it was that or go to trial in a county with a 95% conviction rate at jury trials for a crime with the possibility of being sentenced to as many as 25 years in prison. I pled guilty to Assault II, instead of Assaulting a police officer, and was sentenced to 1 year in prison.

not that the prison time was any picnic, but the long-term ramifications are far, far worse.

 

[rugertoter]

Man, I don't know what to think of this thread. I can understand why you are bent out of shape about not being able to own a firearm, but there are way more felons out there who did way worse than you and I would not want them to legally own a gun. If they get one illegally, well then thats their bad. I CC 98% of the time, and if I ever had to use that gun I understand that there will be consequences. Thats just the law, right or wrong, thats the way it is.