Secret Serial Numbers?

[Kirk Freeman]

Teaching in Evansville on Friday and I received a question from a PD there about "secret serial numbers" on new firearms as on motor vehicles.

I thought this may be some telephone game rumor about microstamping. However, he insists he has been told by several LEOs in several agencies in Vanderbergh County that it exists.

What does INGO think?

 

[onetwoonetwo]

nothing's shocking.

 

[ModernGunner]

Uh, hiding a 'secret' serial number on a car is one thing, hiding it on a handgun, or even rifle or shotgun is something else. Where are they claiming this is hidden? Inside the barrel, stamped in teensy-weensy numbers on a spring? Since MOST (actually, all) parts on a firearm can be changed, and things like stocks, barrels, trigger assemblies, etc. regularly are, not sure how well that would work for the 'spies that be'.

 

[Hoploholic]

I cannot say if it's true or not, but like One stated...it would not surprise me. The only factor that would push me towards maybe calling "BS" is that the tech would not be cheap to implement.

 

[SERparacord]

One of the gun banners favorite wet dreams is a “secret serial number” somewhere in the gun.

?Secret Serial Numbers On Guns? | Extrano's Alley, a gun blog

 

[rob63]

Considering that it would cost extra for the manufacturers, would require the cooperation of the manufacturers to keep it secret, and a number of the manufacturers are not US companies, I would be willing to entertain a doubt.

 

[onetwoonetwo]

laser etched under the metal somewhere you can only see it with a microscope? or one of those invisible strange water marks/holograms like they use on some concert tickets and back stage passes and such? tin foil hats? glow in the dark tattoos you can only see in black light(old school dragon posters and velvet Elvis stuff)?

 

[fastwally]

I heard they are only putting them on 1911's.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What would be the point? Yes, there are guns with scratched off serial numbers. Even on homicide guns its pretty rare, though. I suppose in those few limited instances a hidden S/N would be helpful, but otherwise I don't see any point to it.

 

[30calmachinegunner]

Consider the source, coming from someone in law enforcement. The fools are thinking micro stamping which is a joke in itself, they hear and interpret things the way they want the hear them, the same thing they do when talking to you, that's why rule #1 is "don't talk to the man"

Honestly, are you naive enough to think something like that could be kept quiet?

 

[357 Terms]

BS

I question the intelligence of those deputies.
I had my DL suspended years back after a kid crossed center and hit me head on, the Vanderburgh co. cop filled out the accident report stating I was driving a "Toyota Acura" needless to say this didnt jive with my insurance info, had some fun getting that straightened out!

 

[LarryC]

What would be the point? Yes, there are guns with scratched off serial numbers. Even on homicide guns its pretty rare, though. I suppose in those few limited instances a hidden S/N would be helpful, but otherwise I don't see any point to it.

BehindBlueI's has the most intelligent answer ~ really the only good a serial number can do is somewhat trace the history of the firearm or be used to identify the firearm recovered from a theft. Even tracing the "history" of transactions of a firearm would be in many cases impossible if has been through a few owners. I think a firearm sold in the last 20 years or so would be easy to trace through from the Manufacturer or importer to the distributor, then FFL that first sold it and first owner ~ then if the first owner or his heirs don't have the firearm, it could become a nightmare to trace it farther. Even if he/she sold it through an FFL 15 years ago, which one and where and when would be the question. Yeah it probably has been recorded, but how long would it take to go through the books at one dealer to find a 15 ~ 20 year old record. If he is out of business the record would be at the ATF tomes. If it has been sold via private sale one time, quite possibly the trail would end there!

Since there is nothing that can tie a recovered bullet from a crime to a particular firearm unless you have the firearm in your possession to compare ballistic markings, I can't see it being a benefit to law enforcement or a detriment to firearm owners even if somehow they did add a "hidden" SN.

 

[EOD Guy]

I could see this being used as part of a "covert" LEO operation...to identify items for tracking or court purposes. I highly doubt manufacturers are doing this...too many would push back and couldn't be kept quiet.

Plus isn't it illegal to keep a federal database?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I could see this being used as part of a "covert" LEO operation...to identify items for tracking or court purposes. I highly doubt manufacturers are doing this...too many would push back and couldn't be kept quiet.

Plus isn't it illegal to keep a federal database?

And how would this be easier or better than the plainly visible S/N on the exterior of the gun that's a felony to alter? What additional information would you gain and track?

 

[ModernGunner]

...I was driving a "Toyota Acura"...

That must be a 'hybrid'?

 

[Joniki]

What would be the point? Yes, there are guns with scratched off serial numbers. Even on homicide guns its pretty rare, though. I suppose in those few limited instances a hidden S/N would be helpful, but otherwise I don't see any point to it.

My thoughts exactly. Older firearms had S/N's on every metal part.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

One of the gun banners favorite wet dreams is a “secret serial number” somewhere in the gun.

?Secret Serial Numbers On Guns? | Extrano's Alley, a gun blog

Ok, that jives with other gun culture rumors, confusing proposals with reality. There's a lot of magical thinking/wish fulfillment among us. E.g. Obama makes a proposal to expand mental health information in NICS and the Internet freaks out about the police "taking guns."

When I was working at Galyan's in 1989 I remember I co-worker babbling on about how semi-auto rifles were "highly illegal" now and Galyan's had to stop selling them or he would call ATF as "Congress banned them". He was actually misreporting a proposal by Metzenbaum. He wouldn't shut up, "dem gunz are banned". I told him to go up on the roof with a pair of field glasses and give us an early warning for the raid teams.

 

[DRob]

First, I gotta' say I am not the least bit surprised that this took a LEO-bashing turn. Some guys apparently think bashing the target du jour makes them look a lot brighter. On topic.........If this was happening, we would see a general increase in the price of guns. All that super-duper secret stuff, like microstamping, would cost the manufacturers millions in tooling. Being a business, their only option would be to pass on the additional cost to the consumer.

 

[Steve B]

My new M&P has what appears to be a QR code next to the serial number. Not a secret as it's in plain sight, but I found it interesting as my old one doesn't have one. Not sure what all is in that little code. Maybe it's not a QR code but a tracking chip. At least that's what I'm telling everyone on the internet from now on.

 

[PRasko]

It's not an actual number per se, but I've read and heard about certain manufacturers embedding RFID tags into their polymer frames.