SC officer charged with murder in man's death. Video catches him plant evidence.

[ArcadiaGP]

Wrong thread

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

This was my initial reaction, as well. The perpetrator was fired from the police force, arrested, charged with murder, and is being held without bail. What more do they want? A public lynching without a trial?

That would please more people than would have the guts to admit it.

 

[david890]

If a suspect takes a LEO's stun gun are they allowed to protect themselves with lethal force?

While IANAL, I suspect lethal force would be allowed if circumstances justified the use of lethal force. IMHO, there are no legitimate circumstances in this instance.

When the officer shot was he aware the stun gun had been dropped?

I doubt if the officer could use the perp's possible possession of the stun gun as a defense, given that the perp had his back to the officer when the officer shot. The perp was not presenting a clear and present danger to the officer at the time the officer fired, nor does it appear any such danger was present up to the time of the shooting.

Finally, what happened to "shoot to wound" instead of "shoot to kill" (other than the obvious answer of, "Dead men don't testify.")? Yes, I realize stress and adrenaline are factors in such situations, and that many people are taught to aim for center-of-mass, but does that preclude a warning shot to a fleeing suspect?

 

[T.Lex]

Two years ago, officer Collier was interviewed by CNN.

Brother of slain MIT officer: I don't want him to be a hero, I want him to be here ? The Lead with Jake Tapper - CNN.com Blogs

Wait. Did you get the wrong thread with this, GP?

I mean, if this SC officer was related to the MIT officer, that'd be, like, the craziest coincidence in the history of irony!

 

[ArcadiaGP]

We don't know enough about the officer to consider this a racial or animosity-based issue. But it does seem to be a training issue. Rather than get off his ass and chase the guy down, he looked at it as an amateur performing a citizens arrest might: "This guy can't get away from me! How can I stop them with as little effort on my part as possible? Well I do have this gun..."

Wait. Did you get the wrong thread with this, GP?

I mean, if this SC officer was related to the MIT officer, that'd be, like, the craziest coincidence in the history of irony!

Yeah wrong thread.

 

[KG1]

While IANAL, I suspect lethal force would be allowed if circumstances justified the use of lethal force. IMHO, there are no legitimate circumstances in this instance.



I doubt if the officer could use the perp's possible possession of the stun gun as a defense, given that the perp had his back to the officer when the officer shot. The perp was not presenting a clear and present danger to the officer at the time the officer fired, nor does it appear any such danger was present up to the time of the shooting.

Finally, what happened to "shoot to wound" instead of "shoot to kill" (other than the obvious answer of, "Dead men don't testify.")? Yes, I realize stress and adrenaline are factors in such situations, and that many people are taught to aim for center-of-mass, but does that preclude a warning shot to a fleeing suspect?

Warning shots? Seriously? I don't think warning shots are good practice to use by anyone in any situation. LEO or non LEO.

 

[halfmileharry]

At one point it looked like the officer saw the person recording, and started to panic. I feel like that's why he kept emphasizing the "Get your hands behind your back..." etc part.

I'd hate to be a bystander recording something like this, where the officer is nearly obviously in the wrong. What if he wanted to take your phone? I'd run my ass out of there and flee the scene ASAP.

Better run fast. Looks like this cop turned his targets backwards to practice back shooting.

 

[david890]

They arrested the cop, charged him with murder. Protesters want an instant conviction, I guess. I mean, what else are they supposed to do? WTF are they protesting?

They're protesting the fact that even after Ferguson and Eric Garner in NY, the first reaction of some cops is to shoot first and ask questions later (and to try to plant evidence/alter a crime scene). IMHO, such cases should cause cops to become more reluctant to use lethal force, even if it means a perp escapes.

Err on the side that causes the least harm, as best as one is able to determine at that time. In this instance, the cops had the guy's car, and the cop's Taser was sitting on the ground. If the perp escaped (and it looked like he could barely run), it wouldn't have taken much to apprehend him at a later date.

 

[david890]

Warning shots? Seriously? I don't think warning shots are good practice to use by anyone in any situation. LEO or non LEO.

Seriously. It's a better practice than shooting a fleeing perp in the back.

 

[phylodog]

Seriously. It's a better practice than shooting a fleeing perp in the back.

Warning shots are ridiculous and police officers are not trained to shoot to kill or to shoot to wound.

 

[Kutnupe14]

They're protesting the fact that even after Ferguson and Eric Garner in NY, the first reaction of some cops is to shoot first and ask questions later (and to try to plant evidence/alter a crime scene). IMHO, such cases should cause cops to become more reluctant to use lethal force, even if it means a perp escapes.

Err on the side that causes the least harm, as best as one is able to determine at that time. In this instance, the cops had the guy's car, and the cop's Taser was sitting on the ground. If the perp escaped (and it looked like he could barely run), it wouldn't have taken much to apprehend him at a later date.

This, they're not asking for more to be done specific this issue, they're protesting under the belief that police apply unjustified force disproportionately on minorities, than non-minorities.

 

[KG1]

Seriously. It's a better practice than shooting a fleeing perp in the back.

So where exactly is this warning shot supposed to go? Up in the air? into the ground? at a tree? down the block? You don't see a potential problem with collateral damage or an innocent being struck by that warning shot perhaps? Maybe he might've hit that witness that was taking the video.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I don't think it's anti-police to see this video as proof of what CAN really happen, and then to wonder how often it HAS really happened.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Keep in mind, the jury will be instructed to look at only the facts of this case - not any of the outside influences. Plus, the cynic in me suspects that a jury in that venue will likely be at least 50% white.... soooo...

The defense only needs 1 out of 12 jurors to say "no" to murder to get a hung jury on that charge.

Soooo....what? The implication is that whites won't make fair jurors?

If you get a hung jury, you just retry the case. That's not an acquittal.

Darren Wilson is probably breathing a sigh of relief as this will move him out of the spotlight, maybe...

Hardly. I heard JJ on the radio today tying them all together, calling it "terrorism" and "state executions" and the like to the BBC.

Protesters are out in force. I heard one interviewed on the radio. She was screaming that the authorities "have the video, they have the witnesses, they have the evidence...are we going to get a conviction or what"!?!?"

Holy cow! They arrested the cop, charged him with murder. Protesters want an instant conviction, I guess. I mean, what else are they supposed to do? WTF are they protesting?

There is a lot of ignorance as to how the court system works. It's not an intuitive process in many instances, and there are many who will exploit that ignorance for their own purposes.

I think you meant to write, "..and barely managed to trot away on foot."

If that cop was unable to run after and catch the suspect, he shouldn't have been on the job. Shiat, I've had 5 back surgeries and can hobble faster than that perp!

Not trying to be funny, but that's actually one of the first things I thought. I don't win many foot chases, but *I* could have caught that guy.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Soooo....what? The implication is that whites won't make fair jurors?

If you would ask a Jury Selection Consultant (there are such people) he/she would probably tell you that in any case where the defendant and the victim are of different races, then race would be an important factor to consider in jury selection.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If you would ask a Jury Selection Consultant (there are such people) he/she would probably tell you that in any case where the defendant and the victim are of different races, then race would be an important factor to consider in jury selection.

Ok. So I'm asking in this particular case do you or T. Lex believe that white jurors will let this go because they are white?

 

[halfmileharry]

What I see in the video makes the cop look like the bad guy. Like in the Zimmerman case I will wait until all the evidence is presented before I slip the noose over his neck.

 

[Jerry45Acp]

What I see in the video makes the cop look like the bad guy. Like in the Zimmerman case I will wait until all the evidence is presented before I slip the noose over his neck.

^^Words of wisdom, Harry. Words of wisdom.^^

 

[Denny347]

I don't think it's anti-police to see this video as proof of what CAN really happen, and then to wonder how often it HAS really happened.

You are correct

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Ok. So I'm asking in this particular case do you or T. Lex believe that white jurors will let this go because they are white?

No, I don't think so.

But as I think about it, I have to admit that I'm not usually good at guessing about those kinds of things, and I wouldn't be surprised, if you polled a large enough group of people from all walks of life, that you'd see somewhat of a split along racial lines on the issue of, if not guilt or innocence, maybe on the severity of the penalty.