"Right Wing"

[chipbennett]

It's so anti-thetical that every pro-life person is against the death penalty. Oh wait...

This pro-life person could live without the death penalty - especially if it meant that all elective abortions ended as well. But there is a difference between murder and facing capital punishment for a capital crime. Which position is more morally consistent and intellectually honest: a pro-life person who favors the death penalty, or a pro-abortion person who opposes the death penalty?

 

[chipbennett]

Surprised Oklahoma City hasn't come up. Right-wing for sure.

Yes, McVeigh was an anti-government extremist - one of the very few actual "right wing" extremists. (Some falsely claim he was a Christian, but there can be no doubt about his anti-government beliefs.)

 

[chipbennett]

...or Eric Rudolph

Rudolph is mostly a nutjob with an incoherent ideology. (Religion, too. He bounced from Catholicism to Christian Identity to Nietzsche.)

 

[chipbennett]

By reference…

And I would take that Wikipedia entry with a grain of salt, considering that it includes neo-Nazi (National Socialist) violence as "right-wing" terrorism.

 

[MisterChester]

This pro-life person could live without the death penalty - especially if it meant that all elective abortions ended as well. But there is a difference between murder and facing capital punishment for a capital crime. Which position is more morally consistent and intellectually honest: a pro-life person who favors the death penalty, or a pro-abortion person who opposes the death penalty?

They are both hypocritical and inconsistent in my view. I am pro-choice and pro-capital punishment. That to me is just as consistent as someone who is pro-life and anti-death penalty. But then again, I believe the term "pro-life" is dishonest. It should be anti-abortion. To be truly pro-life you would have to be against abortion, capital punishment, the taking of any life in any form. To be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty is somewhat more consistent than being pro-life and pro-death penalty.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And I would take that Wikipedia entry with a grain of salt, considering that it includes neo-Nazi (National Socialist) violence as "right-wing" terrorism.

Would you call the KKK right wing? And as far as Neo-Nazis, they are a bunch of idiots, they really against socialism too, despite its original intent.

 

[chipbennett]

To be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty is somewhat more consistent than being pro-life and pro-death penalty.

Utterly ridiculous. You claim that being in favor of murdering innocent unborn human children and against the death penalty for murderers is more consistent than being against the murder of innocent unborn human children and for the death penalty for murderers?

The latter view is utterly morally bankrupt: killing babies good; killing murderers bad. I would call such a view sick, to be honest.

 

[chipbennett]

Would you call the KKK right wing? And as far as Neo-Nazis, they are a bunch of idiots, they really against socialism too, despite its original intent.

No, I would not consider KKK "right wing". What is "right wing" about racism?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Let's clarify a few things (and personally, I hate the term "terrorism" because I think it's just plain old violent aggression, but whatever):

1. Libertarians can't be terrorists, for what defines a libertarian is the opposition of the initiation of force. Terrorism by definition is the initiation of force.
2. People who bomb abortion clinics are terrorists, but if that were our entire problem with terrorism, it would be a pretty small problem.
3. Calling a "pro-life" person out because they also agree with the death penalty, or calling a "pro-choice" person out because they don't agree with school vouchers is a violation of logic - a misuse of semantics.

Much as I tend to agree with you about most things, I'm going to have to disagree with your characterization of "terrorism." "Terrorism" is a tactic of deliberately, mindfully, willfully, with malice aforethought, killing individuals and groups with the goal of forcing a political or ideological outcome. It's this deliberate planning which sets it apart from psychopathic killers and gangsters. Terrorists don't kill others just for the sake of killing; they do it - and generally justify it - in the name of some cause.

 

[MisterChester]

Utterly ridiculous. You claim that being in favor of murdering innocent unborn human children and against the death penalty for murderers is more consistent than being against the murder of innocent unborn human children and for the death penalty for murderers?

The latter view is utterly morally bankrupt: killing babies good; killing murderers bad. I would call such a view sick, to be honest.

Re-read what I wrote. They are both inconsistent.

And I see what you're doing here, trying to reduce pro-choice people as morally bankrupt. There are those, like me, who are pro-choice because we believe the state should not be responsible for our bodies, which is the property of the person. If that's being morally bankrupt, then I am proud to laugh in the face of social statism.

 

[MisterChester]

No, I would not consider KKK "right wing". What is "right wing" about racism?

Well with how much the KKK complains about the left, it doesn't leave too much to the imagination.

 

[chipbennett]

Re-read what I wrote. They are both inconsistent.

And I see what you're doing here, trying to reduce pro-choice people as morally bankrupt. There are those, like me, who are pro-choice because we believe the state should not be responsible for our bodies, which is the property of the person. If that's being morally bankrupt, then I am proud to laugh in the face of social statism.

No, you claimed that one view was more consistent than the other view. I merely pointed out the absurdity of that claim. You have created a straw man. While I do believe that murder of unborn human babies is morally bankrupt, I was not making that argument here. Instead, I was arguing that it is morally bankrupt to condone the murder of unborn human babies while simultaneously condemning the execution of convicted murderers sentenced to death. Further, I asserted that such view even more absurd in comparison to the view that condemns the murder of unborn human babies while simultaneously condoning the execution of convicted murderers sentenced to death.

Note that I have also said that I personally would be fine with eliminating the death penalty - and especially so if it meant the end of all elective abortions.

 

[chipbennett]

Well with how much the KKK complains about the left, it doesn't leave too much to the imagination.

What stated ideology of the KKK is "right wing"? If anything, KKK have aligned themselves with Nazis and neo-Nazis - though as best as I can tell, their ideology is based purely on racial bigotry, and they have historically acted in ways that further that ideology (fighting against unions, associating with Nazis/neo-Nazis, etc.).

 

[jamil]

This is one area where I completely agree with rambone. The left/right line is incapable of modeling the full spectrum of political ideologies. And the direction the thread has turned exemplifies the point masterfully.

 

[Kutnupe14]

No, I would not consider KKK "right wing". What is "right wing" about racism?

Racism isn't confined to the right wing. Id call the NBPP and the Nation of Islam left-wing. I take it you wouldn't assign that label to them?

 

[oldpink]

Racism isn't confined to the right wing. Id call the NBPP and the Nation of Islam left-wing. I take it you wouldn't assign that label to them?

Would you be surprised that the Southern Poverty Law Center most definitely does consider those two groups as "right wing?"

30 New Activists Heading Up the Radical Right | Southern Poverty Law Center
Specifically, this guy's entry - Malik Zulu Shabazz | Southern Poverty Law Center

Nation of Islam | Southern Poverty Law Center

In fact, I once heard a radio interview with SPLC's Mark Potok in which the host, incredulous that his organization had lumped in Nation of Islam and NBPP with other groups as one of their "30 Right-Wing Groups to Watch," asked why they were on that list.
Potok made the blanket statement that any organization who promulgates racism is right-wing by definition.
No, I'm not making this one up.

 

[chipbennett]

Racism isn't confined to the right wing. Id call the NBPP and the Nation of Islam left-wing. I take it you wouldn't assign that label to them?

NOI? Definitely left-wing (in favor of State control), depending on how down-for-the-Sharia-struggle they are. NBPP? Probably not. As far as I know, they're just mostly racist.

 

[chipbennett]

Would you be surprised that the Southern Poverty Law Center most definitely does consider those two groups as "right wing?"

30 New Activists Heading Up the Radical Right | Southern Poverty Law Center
Specifically, this guy's entry - Malik Zulu Shabazz | Southern Poverty Law Center

Nation of Islam | Southern Poverty Law Center

In fact, I once heard a radio interview with SPLC's Mark Potok in which the host, incredulous that his organization had lumped in Nation of Islam and NBPP with other groups as one of their "30 Right-Wing Groups to Watch," asked why they were on that list.
Potok made the blanket statement that any organization who promulgates racism is right-wing by definition.
No, I'm not making this one up.

SPLC are not credible.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Would you be surprised that the Southern Poverty Law Center most definitely does consider those two groups as "right wing?"

30 New Activists Heading Up the Radical Right | Southern Poverty Law Center
Specifically, this guy's entry - Malik Zulu Shabazz | Southern Poverty Law Center

Nation of Islam | Southern Poverty Law Center

In fact, I once heard a radio interview with SPLC's Mark Potok in which the host, incredulous that his organization had lumped in Nation of Islam and NBPP with other groups as one of their "30 Right-Wing Groups to Watch," asked why they were on that list.
Potok made the blanket statement that any organization who promulgates racism is right-wing by definition.
No, I'm not making this one up.

That indeed is crazy. Left-wingers can be just as racist as right-the wingers. Neither has the monopoly on ignorance and hate.

 

[jamil]

State control isn't exclusively a left or right desire.