"Right Wing"

[BigBoxaJunk]

Science has a definition for biological life. It creates an objective line between life and not-life. Do you not know that definition, or do you willfully choose to ignore it?

But the thought that "life begins at conception" is just an opinion. It's no different than picking a specific day on the calendar to call the "First Day of Spring". An entire process happens, beginning with the formation and maturation of ovum and sperm and "ending" with the birth of a child. Picking one moment of that process and calling that the beginning of life is just putting a label on that moment. All of the other moments during the process are just as important.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Heck, let's start there: when does a human being become conscious?

For me, usually around 6am.

 

[chipbennett]

But the thought that "life begins at conception" is just an opinion. It's no different than picking a specific day on the calendar to call the "First Day of Spring". An entire process happens, beginning with the formation and maturation of ovum and sperm and "ending" with the birth of a child. Picking one moment of that process and calling that the beginning of life is just putting a label on that moment. All of the other moments during the process are just as important.

Biologically and genetically, that's simply not true. Sperm and ovum are gametes. Conception is the point that the gametes join, and form a unique, fully human, living entity.

The only matter of opinion involves when that unique, fully human, living entity is conferred "personhood".

 

[Dean C.]

Does society have a responsibility to end abortion?

Only if you like welfare....

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Biologically and genetically, that's simply not true. Sperm and ovum are gametes. Conception is the point that the gametes join, and form a unique, fully human, living entity.

The only matter of opinion involves when that unique, fully human, living entity is conferred "personhood".

I do wish that I'd paid more attention in classes like Developmental Biology, Cell Biology, Micro Biology, and Genetics just like I wish I'd paid more attention to all my classes in college. But I do remember Dr. List drawing really cool diagrams on the board using different colors of chalk in Developmental. He drew out all the different stages starting from that ovum and the sperm coming together to form one cell, which divides into two, then four, and so on until the cells at one point begin to differentiate and align into a hollow sphere (the blastula?). Each different stage had a different name and I had to learn them all, as well as the developmental processes that differentiated them from each other as growth progressed. One of my favorite parts involved "induction", which is the process where one group of cells in the embryo induce other nearby cells to form differently.

What I don't remember having to know was the exact point at which the embryo's "life" had begun. It wasn't in the book, in the lecture, and I don't remember that it was ever on a test. (although I did get a C in that class, so I could have missed it). The reason Dr. List didn't think that was important was because he was simply teaching us science, with no other agenda.

 

[chipbennett]

What I don't remember having to know was the exact point at which the embryo's "life" had begun. It wasn't in the book, in the lecture, and I don't remember that it was ever on a test. (although I did get a C in that class, so I could have missed it). The reason Dr. List didn't think that was important was because he was simply teaching us science, with no political agenda.

The only reason there is any question or dispute is, indeed, because of a political agenda. Self-directed development and response to environmental stimuli begins at the Zygote stage. Life exists at that stage. Cell differentiation exists within five days of conception. From that point, development proceeds so quickly that the heart develops and is beating by 22 days.

Life exists at the Zygote stage. Life is undeniable long before the earliest abortions are carried out. The only reason to assert otherwise is for political reasons - i.e. to justify the taking of that life.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Life exists at the Zygote stage. Life is undeniable long before the earliest abortions are carried out. The only reason to assert otherwise is for political reasons - i.e. to justify the taking of that life.

To me, it doesn't matter where the pointer is placed to define one part of the process as being more important than the other 280 or so days of development. Whichever of those days that someone picks out as being acceptable to abort the pregnancy, it will always be a somewhat arbitrary call, either way.

 

[chipbennett]

To me, it doesn't matter where the pointer is placed to define one part of the process as being more important than the other 280 or so days of development. Whichever of those days that someone picks out as being acceptable to abort the pregnancy, it will always be a somewhat arbitrary call, either way.

Even by that standard: it is undeniable that life does begin, at some point, along that developmental stage. So: whom does the arbitrary decision help, and whom does the arbitrary decision harm, if it is made incorrectly? If that decision is arbitrary (i.e. made without having defined precisely the point at which life has begun), then you have just made it possible to end a human life as a result of that arbitrary decision.

 

[D-Ric902]

The decision starts before conception

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Even by that standard: it is undeniable that life does begin, at some point, along that developmental stage. So: whom does the arbitrary decision help, and whom does the arbitrary decision harm, if it is made incorrectly? If that decision is arbitrary (i.e. made without having defined precisely the point at which life has begun), then you have just made it possible to end a human life as a result of that arbitrary decision.

I realize that lines must be drawn. I didn't feel more mature at 18 than I was the day before, yet the day of my 18th birthday I became an adult.

I would have to wonder if the decision to end any human life, at any age, or for any reason, isn't arbitrary on some level.

 

[24Carat]

You mean, when the Moors (Muslim) invaded the Holy Land, Byzantine, and Europe, raping, killing, raiding, and pillaging wherever they went? Then the Europeans organized armies to drive the invaders back out? The wars that lasted 200 years, with a death toll less than half of the lives lost in the Holocaust? Those Crusades?

The purple was implied. As in the comparison being put forward by Odumbass.

 

[chipbennett]

The purple was implied. As in the comparison being put forward by Odumbass.

I thought it was, but... I guess I needed more coffee.

 

[jamil]

I thought it was, but... I guess I needed more coffee.

Drink up! It has health benefits and ****.

Wait. Wrong thread. Maybe I should start drinking coffee.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

On topic of the thread (not the other discussion)...

CNN hyped a report that the DHS classified "Right wing terrorism" as biggest American threat.

Now the DHS is refusing to release said report:

https://twitter.com/michellemalkin/status/570267560010055681

 

[chipbennett]

On topic of the thread (not the other discussion)...

CNN hyped a report that the DHS classified "Right wing terrorism" as biggest American threat.

Now the DHS is refusing to release said report:

https://twitter.com/michellemalkin/status/570267560010055681

This is the same crap that DHS pulled back in 2009, when it labeled TEA party types as terrorists.

I would think that there area FOIA grounds to sue DHS to release the assessment, given that they have already released it to the public (CNN).

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Michelle Malkin | » CNN, DHS & SPLC?s Blame Righty hit job

 

[chipbennett]

And here's the actual DHS Intelligence Assessment:

http://cloudfront-assets.reason.com/media/pdf/Sovereign_Citizen_Extremist_Ideology_2-5-15.pdf

Somehow, reason.com got a copy:

Exclusive: Here is the New Homeland Security Report on 'Sovereign Citizen Extremist' Violence - Hit & Run : Reason.com

 

[oldpink]

So, "Right-Wing" groups are this huge phantom menace, eh?
And they refuse to release this calumny to the public directly, correct?
Kinda like this "Net Neutrality" power grab, right?