right or wrong

[No Time to Shoot]

Sir, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

That's what I was thinking!

 

[haldir]

Say what? You are trying to draw some sort of twisted analogy of someone willfully - without force, coercion or threat - paying too much for something to rape?

Sir, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I was responding to the blame the victim post. The poor newbie or even regular member that comes on here and (as an example buys that ammo that even pissed off Fenway) has the expectation that we are all neighbors and will treat each other as we would treat them is some how partially to blame for not recognizing douche bags is just beyond me. It seems to be the attitude of some, "f*ck 'em, if they are that stupid then they have it coming".

 

[haldir]

People should think very critically of the repercussions of asking for more regulation. Our country seems to have lost this ability.

I don't think anyone has asked for regulations. Some of us are just openly critical of people that seem to want to take advantage of the ignorance of others.

 

[4sarge]

I was responding to the blame the victim post. The poor newbie or even regular member that comes on here and (as an example buys that ammo that even pissed off Fenway) has the expectation that we are all neighbors and will treat each other as we would treat them is some how partially to blame for not recognizing douche bags is just beyond me. It seems to be the attitude of some, "f*ck 'em, if they are that stupid then they have it coming".

I'm so glad that these "new" members are such caring concerned members of the INGO Family and are such committed capitalists when there is a buck to be made at someone else's expense

 

[Crystalship1]

I'm so glad that these "new" members are such caring concerned members of the INGO Family and are such committed capitalists when there is a buck to be made at someone else's expense

Exactly. Although the ones of us with scruples are still running at 88.76% and that's a good thing!!! Still less asshats per hunderd than elsewhere!!!

 

[Chefcook]

Exactly. Although the ones of us with scruples are still running at 88.76% and that's a good thing!!! Still less asshats per hunderd than elsewhere!!!

He said asshats..LMFAO.......................................................................................................................

 

[No Time to Shoot]

I don't think anyone has asked for regulations. Some of us are just openly critical of people that seem to want to take advantage of the ignorance of others.

The thread headed that direction in the begining. I'm still stuck on it. I think it would be a good idea if the mods could openly post something like: "check your price" on their sale ad. And if the person disagrees with the mods suggestion they can reply under the post the reason for the price. THis allows any unsuspecting member of INGO to read what's going on and make an educated desicion from there.

But if the seller does what that last guy did and mock Fenway and all of us on this great forum then......

 

[Kcustom45]

Another thing I think people need to keep in mind is that while America is a Democracy, and a "free market" a website is not.

First of all America is NOT a Democracy. It never has been and God willing it never will be.

What people that complain against the rules really want is Anarchy, not Freedom, in my opinion.

I'm not sure that there are many of us complaining against rules as much as pointing out that it does not make you an evil person if you make a profit on a sale.

My argument is against regulation of prices. The value of an something should be judged by the person who is in the market for that good or service.
People should think very critically of the repercussions of asking for more regulation. Our country seems to have lost this ability.

Agreed.

I'm so glad that these "new" members are such caring concerned members of the INGO Family and are such committed capitalists when there is a buck to be made at someone else's expense

Just so we can be clear who is the person who is being taken advantage of when 2 people willing enter into an agreement? Phrases like "...a buck to be made at someone else's expense" scare the hell out of me. But maybe it is just me.

 

[4sarge]

Just so we can be clear who is the person who is being taken advantage of when 2 people willing enter into an agreement? Phrases like "...a buck to be made at someone else's expense" scare the hell out of me. But maybe it is just me.

I'm so glad that you are so wise

 

[SavageEagle]

He said asshats..LMFAO.......................................................................................................................

Forgive me! I couldn't resist!

 

[4sarge]

Forgive me! I couldn't resist!

We seem to be collecting our fair share lately. AssHat, bet you can't say that 3 times fast Must be really slow at GunBroker or Arfcom

 

[Roadie]

First of all America is NOT a Democracy. It never has been and God willing it never will be.
I'm not sure that there are many of us complaining against rules as much as pointing out that it does not make you an evil person if you make a profit on a sale.
Agreed.

Just so we can be clear who is the person who is being taken advantage of when 2 people willing enter into an agreement? Phrases like "...a buck to be made at someone else's expense" scare the hell out of me. But maybe it is just me.

I stand corrected. i know better, I know we are a Republic. That's what I get for trying to post quickly because I am at work

 

[Kcustom45]

I stand corrected. i know better, I know we are a Republic. That's what I get for trying to post quickly because I am at work

You are forgiven.

 

[Roadie]

You are forgiven.

Thank you

 

[cordex]

I was responding to the blame the victim post.

See, that's part of your problem. The buyer is not a victim. If someone held a knife to their throat until they bought the overpriced ammo (a dumb move, to be sure, because now they have ammo and are no doubt itching to use it), then the buyer would be a victim. If someone stole their information and bought the overpriced ammo, the person whose information was stolen would be a victim. Someone who willfully buys something at an inflated price is not a victim, they just were either ill-informed, or had some specific reason for purchasing at that rate (i.e., they could get it sooner than from cheaper sources, or it was a higher quality product, more convenient, etc.).

They are not victims, and are absolutely in no way comparable to victims of sexual assault or rape. Frankly, you are out of line for trying to draw that comparison.

The poor newbie or even regular member that comes on here and (as an example buys that ammo that even pissed off Fenway) has the expectation that we are all neighbors and will treat each other as we would treat them is some how partially to blame for not recognizing douche bags is just beyond me. It seems to be the attitude of some, "f*ck 'em, if they are that stupid then they have it coming".

Contrary to the apparent desires of many here, we don't live in a nerf world where we can (or should) trust every random post on the internet. That is true here every bit as much as it is on Craigslist. I will trust the people who have earned it, not just because they belong to an internet forum. You should too.

I like this place. I really do. It's enjoyable and I've met some very, very good people here. At every opportunity, I've attempted to give back to the community. That said, just because someone is a member here doesn't mean I'd give them keys to my house, or loan them money. INGO is part of my community, but membership to the site does not equate to membership in my family. Some members are very close friends, some are friends, some are associates, some are random internet strangers who happen to post on the same board as me. If you feel differently, that's your call. The rainbows and unicorns approach may well work for you. I prefer to be realistic.

It would be great if we were all buddy-buddy and could trust each other like brothers, but in an open group like this, pretending that we are is forced and artificial. That in no way diminishes INGO or its members.

 

[samrothstein01]

I don't have a problem with someone trying to make a buck or two, and I would suspect not many of us on here would....but when the prices are increased by over 50% or more and trying to "get rich quick" we have a problem. One which should not be supported, and should be condemned if in no other manner than by ignoring the ad. On the other hand, the buyer does have some responsibility in this too and isn't off the hook for supporting these ridiculous prices. They cannot just make assumptions without doing a little research to see what prices are and evaluate what they are willing to pay. Everyone in the transaction has a stake and should put a little work into it.

"Free markets" and "capitalism" terms are used lightly around here and the focus really should be on the positives of this community rather than on economic practices, albeit that classifieds is definately a contributor to the positives of the community.

This community was created (as I understand it) first and foremost for collaboration, learning, sharing, and comradarie. This has little to do with trust and everything to do with access to information. Think of the newbies that have been educated on LTCH, or myself learning more about reloading, or even someone converting from a "non believer" to someone who now totes a .40 cal. These are the circumstances the highlight the purpose of the site, not to give them your keys to you house. Those of us who are lucky enough to make lifelong friends from this sight or even shooting pals to catch up with on the weekends can consider the site to have served a much greater purpose. As I have said this before....Classifieds are a privilege, a bonus of sorts. One that I also enjoy very much in addition to the much more valuable content and knowledge of the patrons of this sight. Don't ruin it for the rest of us, make your buck off the item and let someone who has been looking for it purchase it fairly.

All in all, it should be pretty simple. Be fair, be reasonable, and be responsible!

 

[haldir]

They are not victims, and are absolutely in no way comparable to victims of sexual assault or rape. Frankly, you are out of line for trying to draw that comparison.

Actually the analogy was done a bit tongue in cheek, thus the reference to Bobby Knight getting in trouble for making it in his case. Sorry if that went over your head.

Contrary to the apparent desires of many here, we don't live in a nerf world where we can (or should) trust every random post on the internet. That is true here every bit as much as it is on Craigslist. I will trust the people who have earned it, not just because they belong to an internet forum. You should too.

Thanks for the advice on what I should do and what I shouldn't We all have different personalities. If I was going to the range with some of the guys on here and one of them said they didn't have the ammo to go, I would give it to them and just say catch me next time. I wouldn't look upon it as an opportunity to make a few bucks. (Obviously i wouldn't continue to do it if they didn't replace the ammo as I will not be taken advantage of, so let's get that out of the way.) But you obviously would do otherwise, apparently.

Maybe this is the same divide we saw in the SHTF thread where some on here said they would help others, and other members said they would start killing the innocents to better equip themselves.

 

[Crystalship1]

I don't have a problem with someone trying to make a buck or two, and I would suspect not many of us on here would....but when the prices are increased by over 50% or more and trying to "get rich quick" we have a problem.

Exactly!!! Heck... at this point I would happily pay a member a $1 premium on every 50 rnds. of .45ACP Walmart ammo they can procure for me as there is simply none to be had in my area!!!!

 

[hornadylnl]

I bought some ammo off of a guy at work. He told me he had 12 25 rd boxes of 45 that he'd sell to me at $100. I figured if they were 25 round boxes, at the least, they should be hollowpoints so they should be worth at least $100. This guy has a second career of going to garage sales and auctions and reselling at flea markets. I went and looked at the ammo. It was 3 boxes of Black Talons, 1 box of Golden Sabre, and 4 boxes of WWB. I asked him how much he paid for it and he wouldn't say. He would only say that he was making money at $100. So, I thought 2 could play that game.

I made a hefty profit off of that ammo on Arfcom. I listed it there as a WTT. I didn't list a cash price but the going market value was around $280. I had a cash price in mind if I didn't get any trade offers I was interested in. A guy emailed a cash price offer well above what I already had in mind. Am I evil for taking it? Am I evil for not giving the guy more than $100 for it? He's told me that he's bought stuff at a garage sale for less than a buck and selling it that weekend at a flea market for $10. Is he evil for doing that?

Bottom line is that we all need to be adults and educate ourselves on what we are entering ourselves into. If I have something to sell, I try to research it for a current market value and set my price. If I'm buying, I look at what current prices are on Gunbroker, ebay, etc. Part of the responsibility of being a free man and an adult is taking responsibility if you make a poor choice. If you need someone to hold your hand as you make buying and selling choices, than you are neither free or an adult.

If I sell on here or Craigslist, I usually have a price in mind and I will start a hair over that price because always, the buyer will try to talk you down. Am I always trying to make a profit off of others? Ask Printcraft. I posted a deal that saved him $300 easily when I could have bought it and made that money myself. I also believe in the idea that taking care of each other on here is a great thing and do that myself but if we need to handhold each other on every transaction, we aren't really helping anyone be responsible.

Bottom line, if you don't like people's pricing, put them on your ignore. I don't really list much stuff on here because I get tired of the pissing and moaning from a select few. I was trying to sell some new AR mags at $15 each. Am I making a profit on them at that price? Yes. Is that a gouging price in today's market? No. You may be able to find a few online places that have them for less than that but will probably not find any of them with them in stock. Nobody wanted them at that price so it just means more for me.

 

[samrothstein01]

If you need someone to hold your hand as you make buying and selling choices, than you are neither free or an adult.

So am I considered to be an enslaved child because I need assistance in knowing what the going price should be, or looking to others for help if I need advice for what to purchase when reloading? Perhaps I am just new at it and don't know any better? I realize and agree that the buyer also has a responsibility to research and make an educated decision, but why can't we (INGO) be the provider of that research and information?

There are far too many individuals, both young and old, that are new to firearms and don't have the mentorship that few of us were lucky enough to have. Everyone starts learning somewhere, and this site was created to help them learn along the way rather than take advantage of them.

For profit, I would suggest going to a gunbroker or AR-15 site. This site was not created with the intention of its members making large profits or a career out of reselling. Once again, nobody on here has a problem with making a buck or two, but the classifieds are such a small part of the overall value of the site.