Revolvers vs Pistols

[dom1104]

Revolvers and Semi-autos all have thier pro's and cons... I do like my Semi-auto wonder nine while thick in the city, but nothing beats a revolver in a magnum caliber when out in the sticks... The semi has fast reloads and round count on it's side, the revolver has magnum velocities and durability on it's side...

They both are the right tool for the right job... so don't forget to get them both...

Can you tell I like revolvers.....

I am more curious as to what the thing directly ABOVE the R8 is, its like a slab of blued steel with a AR15 flash hider on it.

 

[gunbunnies]

Rob337, I love the R8, I haven't got a dot sight for it as of yet and haven't put a rail light on it but those are in the plans for this little gem. It's fast to load and unload with the 8 shot moon clips as long as you are using a rounded bullet design or something like the FTX bullets. I haven't mastered using hollow points quickly yet with the clips as the bullets don't just flop into the cylinders like they do with the solid points. With solid point bullets though this thing is quick.. Decent trigger straight out of the box but it will be going to my smith soon enough to get a glass action job. Great feel, awesome performer... and as stated earlier in this thread, it was designed as a shield gun. One of the failures of this semi-auto platform is firing it from a stable shooting platform. A semi will suffer from what is called fish handleing the gun under recoil, the revolver doesn't have that problem because recoil isn't involved in loading the next round. Therfore they were designed to be used as shield guns, 8 good rounds going into a hostile situation with only one hand to function the weapon... I think they should have added a lanyard though...

Dom1104, that is a Dan Wesson model 15 with a EWK Arms 8 inch barrel and heavy shroud with the addition of a flash suppressor on the end of the shroud. It does perform the task of leveling the recoil but it has a nasty blast effect to each side of the shooter with 357 magnums... I like the heavy shroud with full house 357 magnums as the gun is pretty heavy and soaks up those magnums quite readily...

Here she is by her self... and she will be out at the next NWI meet and shoot at Winamac on July 29th. if you want to try her out yourself...

8 .357 Cal. Small Frame EH Barrel Assembly - $185.00 : EWK Arms

 

[richardraw316]

You can't play Russian Roulette with a pistol and walk away.

i will play with you, you go first.

 

[JimmyR]

Looking at a revolver

If you are looking at getting a first revolver, with no experience with one, I would suggest looking at getting a used one first- probably a Smith or Ruger. I got my first new (to me) revolver from a guy on Armslist, and paid $325 for a Ruger Security Six .357 that was in great shape. If you aren't planning on using it for CC, I'd go with a 3"+ barrel (mine was a 6"), for the added accuracy.

As for pro/con, I think one thing to consider would not only be reliability but durability. If you look at the used postings for guns, 75% of the semi-autos are less than 10 years old, while 75% of the revolvers are over 10 years old. A revolver is going to last longer than a semi, just by virtue of its simpler construction. Hope this helps

 

[indiucky]

I know a couple of guys in this thread are hard on revolvers and seem to train alot and train to win, fire fights, lot's of rounds, etc...etc....That is good for you and I am happy for you all. I notice that revolver guys tend to not trash semi autos or think that guys that use them are any less prepared than they themselves are. The truth of the matter is both firearms have they place and will be around long after we are all gone.

Frank Hamer tried a semi auto once before going back to his Triple-Lock Smith's. He felt the magazine was the weakest link (a single shot is what you have with a lost or damaged magazine was his belief)and that "limp wristed" shooting is something one may have to do if injured in a firefight. His rifle was a semi auto Remington model 8 in .35 Remington so he was not against semi-autos, he just felt a revolver was better suited for carry. Many other Texas Rangers in his time frame had went to semi-auto 1911's and felt just as comfortable as he did with his big Smith's.

Statistics show us that the mere presence of a gun will in 9 out of 10 times end the fight without shots being fired whether it's the latest plastic wonder pistol with lasers and lights or an H & R .32 revolver. I read "The Armed Citizen" each month and have for years and notice that Americans defend themselves with a wide range of firearms that many guys that "train to win, train to fight, lots of rounds, duracoated black, etc..." would not be caught dead with...Yet, these folks defended their hearth and home with these "outdated" weapons.

Average distance of a gunfight: 10-20 feet
Average rounds fired in a gunfight: 8 (the number used to be lower but with the advent of 15 round plus autos the shots just keep coming it seems)


A nice article on what really happens in a gunfight. A neat observation about revolver sights vs. semi-auto sights that I had never thought of before.


What Really Happens In A Gunfight?

Most guys I know that carry revolvers have as many if not more semi-auto's than revolvers. They prefer the revolver for it's simplicity, reliability, and ease of operation by their better half if they should go down. Every weapon I use for defense has to be as comfortable to my spouse as it is to me for this reason.

No one is any better armed one way or the other. A semi auto plastic wonder gun is as reliable and as good as a tool as a revolver and visa versa IMHO

 

[MilitaryArms]

Average distance of a gunfight: 10-20 feet
Average rounds fired in a gunfight: 8 (the number used to be lower but with the advent of 15 round plus autos the shots just keep coming it seems)

Here's the problem with planning your survival on statistics and averages.

While the average gunfight may take place at 10-20 feet and with only 8 rounds fired, that doesn't account for the people that needed 9+ rounds to end the fight. Only an average number needed 8 rounds leaving a good number needing more.

I don't recommend anyone plan for averages, I believe you should plan for worst case scenarios as best as possible, assuming staying alive is a priority.

 

[indiucky]

I don't recommend anyone plan for averages, I believe you should plan for worst case scenarios as best as possible, assuming staying alive is a priority.

Well hopefully you can get the rest of us folks where staying alive is low on our list of priorities to be that prepared one day.... Some train using statistics and some train based on Hollywood movies. I think both have merit.

 

[Rob377]

....

The problem is, these men are the exception - not the rule. Very-very few people have the skill of these men.

For the average shooter, the auto will be by far faster and easier to master than a revolver, if speed is your goal.

but then....

...

I don't recommend anyone plan for averages, I believe you should plan for worst case scenarios as best as possible, assuming staying alive is a priority.

Don't plan for averages, and don't train to be just an average shooter.

The guy that put in the time and rounds to get good with a revolver will beat the "average" semi-auto owner every time. The gear doesn't make the shooter.

 

[MilitaryArms]

The guy that put in the time and rounds to get good with a revolver will beat the "average" semi-auto owner every time. The gear doesn't make the shooter.

It's a great tag line, but unfortunately you could practice your entire life and not beat Jerry Miculek on the clock, not even come close.

I agree gear doesn't make the shooter, however there are limitations to all gear - both revolver and semi-auto.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Well hopefully you can get the rest of us folks where staying alive is low on our list of priorities to be that prepared one day.... Some train using statistics and some train based on Hollywood movies. I think both have merit.

You left one out, some train based on actual shooting data and other experiences, including life experiences.

Obviously this is a religious argument for you given your testy tone. Please feel free to ignore my opinions if they offend you.

 

[indiucky]

You left one out, some train based on actual shooting data and other experiences, including life experiences.

Obviously this is a religious argument for you given your testy tone. Please feel free to ignore my opinions if they offend you.

I think both types of firearms have merit and a place in self defense. That is not religon, that is opinion. I do not think I have disagreed with anything you have said (and still don't). You have not offended me at all with your opinions. My one real world experiance was able to be defused without any shots fired, of which I am eternally grateful. I think both semi autos and revolvers have their place in modern self defense. That's not an "argument" that's an opinion. I placed both "IMHO and "at the end of my small essay lest anyone think I was "right". I apologise if that seemed "testy" to you, that was not my intent. I also mentioned that my defensive weapon has to be one that my spouse is as comfortable with as I am. In case I should fall I want to know she can pick my weapon up and be comfortable with it. I consider that a real world/hollywood world scenario and I take that into consideration. She is half of my "team", probably the better half as anyone who has ever met her knows. I am not saying others should, but that i do.

 

[Six Forty-Two]

There is a difference in NEEDING 9+ shots to defend yourself and FIRING 9+shots. You maybe only NEEDED 3, but some people, in a state of panic, will keep firing. I remember seeing a video of a store robbery where the assailant was shot multiple times by the store employee after the assailant was motionless on the floor. Two or three shots stopped the attack, but he kept firing, probably because he had the rounds available.

 

[Rob377]

It's a great tag line, but unfortunately you could practice your entire life and not beat Jerry Miculek on the clock, not even come close.

I agree gear doesn't make the shooter, however there are limitations to all gear - both revolver and semi-auto.

But I bet I could beat the "average" shooter with a semi-auto. There are more than a few INGO amish gun shooters that already do it every other weekend.

Moral of the story- Being average sucks. Get good.

 

[Bosshoss]

It's a great tag line, but unfortunately you could practice your entire life and not beat Jerry Miculek on the clock, not even come close.

Wrong while Jerry is the king several shooters have put the time and dedication into trying to beat Jerry and they have come close at the Major matches, last years USPSA nationals Jerry was behind Matt Griffin most of the match and came from behind to win by a half point on the last stage.
Jerry does well under match pressure and you have to beat him he won't give it to you by making mistakes.
The question is do you want it bad enough, have the time and resources to put into it?

I have shot several matches with Jerry over the years and if you think he is fast with a revolver you should see him shoot an auto. He has the fastest splits I have ever heard with a auto and shoots snake eyes on the target.
Years ago that is what several USPSA top shooters did for training to get to the top level, shoot a revolver for a while and learn to make every shot count and watch the sights with the longer trigger pull. Going back to a auto from revolver upped their game.

Revolvers (in competition) is a tough and frustrating game but worth the work and improves your shooting of everything.
Jerry being an example he is one of the best 3 gun shooter alive.

 

[indiucky]

There is a difference in NEEDING 9+ shots to defend yourself and FIRING 9+shots. You maybe only NEEDED 3, but some people, in a state of panic, will keep firing. I remember seeing a video of a store robbery where the assailant was shot multiple times by the store employee after the assailant was motionless on the floor. Two or three shots stopped the attack, but he kept firing, probably because he had the rounds available.

I think that the number of shots fired (by police in gunfights) increased after the switch from revolvers to semi autos by police departments in the 80's and the accuracy went down. I do not think this is because revolvers are "better" or "more accurate" but what you just said. If you have the rounds you will fire them. I don't think it is "panic" as much as "adreneline" that keeps the rounds going. I remember Ayoob had a great article explaining what happened in the notorious "darillo" (sic) case in NYC where 52 (or so) shots were fired (by two officers) at a guy holding his wallet outside his aprtment door. NYC at that time had FMJ 9mm's and they were firing at him while he was in a corner, their bullets kept ricocheting back at them and they thought they were taking fire so they just kept shooting. Ayoob was called in as a witness for the officers. I think they finally got rid of FMJ rounds not long after.

 

[dom1104]

Can someone who remembers statistics better than I do help me calculating probability of multiple factors?

For instance, if the chance we get into a gunfight in our lifetimes is 1 in 10000, the chance we have to fire if we are in a gunfight is 1 in 3, the chance we need to fire, and fire more than 8 shots is 1 in 10....

What is the chance that in our lifetime we will need more than 8 shots?

Sorry, I am a dunce with numbers.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Can someone who remembers statistics better than I do help me calculating probability of multiple factors?

For instance, if the chance we get into a gunfight in our lifetimes is 1 in 10000, the chance we have to fire if we are in a gunfight is 1 in 3, the chance we need to fire, and fire more than 8 shots is 1 in 10....

What is the chance that in our lifetime we will need more than 8 shots?

Sorry, I am a dunce with numbers.

My calculator doesn't go that low, but you're missing something important. Even with those odds, we still carry. Even though it's very unlikely to be in a gunfight. It is unlikely that you'll need to fire, but we all carry our guns loaded. It's even more unlikely that we'll need more than 8 shots, but I carry at least 30 for my primary, and 8 for the BUG.

You can't prepare yourself from statistics. What if you happen to be in that scenario where you need 15 shots, and you can only get off 5 or 6? As Tim said, prepare for the worst likely possibility. If you are prepared for the worst scenario, anything less should seem easy. No different than SHTF prepping. Prep for the worst disaster imaginable, and you're all set for everything that comes your way of a lesser magnitude.

Also, remember, cops will take the ammo that is in your gun, should you need to use it. Bring more than one reload. You still have to get home. Leave a mag in the truck, just for that.

It's easy to be underprepared. There's a reason why police and military do not use revolvers. That being said, feel free to use one, if that's what you choose. I'm not judging revolver fans, I just think autos are better in every imaginable way. I'm entitled to believe that, as you are entitled to believe what you do.

 

[actaeon277]

Probably shouldn't get involved in this. But, here goes...
Revolver or Semi-Auto Pistol.
Train
Train
Train
Maintain equipment
Unless you are shooting against another competition shooter, you should do okay.
But a lot of people are forgetting.....
Attitude.
Fight.
If you are hit...
Fight.
Fight until there is no reason to fight,
or no Fight left in you.
Training or weapon won't matter if you take a non-lethal hit and give up.
Training or weapon won't matter if you exercise bad judgement.
Both Semis and Wheels put a round out at a fantastic amount of speed.

 

[handgun]

My calculator doesn't go that low, but you're missing something important. Even with those odds, we still carry. Even though it's very unlikely to be in a gunfight. It is unlikely that you'll need to fire, but we all carry our guns loaded. It's even more unlikely that we'll need more than 8 shots, but I carry at least 30 for my primary, and 8 for the BUG.

You can't prepare yourself from statistics. What if you happen to be in that scenario where you need 15 shots, and you can only get off 5 or 6? As Tim said, prepare for the worst likely possibility. If you are prepared for the worst scenario, anything less should seem easy. No different than SHTF prepping. Prep for the worst disaster imaginable, and you're all set for everything that comes your way of a lesser magnitude.

Also, remember, cops will take the ammo that is in your gun, should you need to use it. Bring more than one reload. You still have to get home. Leave a mag in the truck, just for that.

It's easy to be underprepared. There's a reason why police and military do not use revolvers. That being said, feel free to use one, if that's what you choose. I'm not judging revolver fans, I just think autos are better in every imaginable way. I'm entitled to believe that, as you are entitled to believe what you do.

Wouldn't they also likely take your gun too if you had to use it??

Maybe keep another in a car safe..

 

[actaeon277]

....
It's easy to be underprepared. There's a reason why police and military do not use revolvers. That being said, feel free to use one, if that's what you choose. I'm not judging revolver fans, I just think autos are better in every imaginable way. I'm entitled to believe that, as you are entitled to believe what you do.

Actually, I've known a few SEALs to carry a revolver.
And military tends to have different engagements than a homeowner does.
Once again,
Shoot what you like/want/can handle.
Practice
Maintain
Attitude.