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Pulled over while carrying...
- Thread starter Old Greg
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Nothing you have stated is the way it is.
I'm having a hard time believing you aren't just making this up as you go to get a response here.
You aren't directly answering any questions asked of you. Why?
So, let me ask just one question at a time and see if you will bother to respond..
Indiana does not have a gun registry, yet you keep using variations of the word "Register". Why?
Is this suppose to be in purple?
Hayseed_40
Expert
mydoghasfleas
Expert
People assume an officer would not ask for something that they may have a right to refuse. They trust law inforcement NOT to violate thier rights.
Allowing my rights to be violated is not me showing respect to law inforcement, but rather SUBMISION to being violated.
It is not my intention to berate you and I understand you are following SOP. I also thank you for being honest and letting us see this from a LE point of view. But please be aware that SOP is "tricking" people into giving up thier rights which is definately not very RESPECTFUL. Have you looked into this..
Oath Keepers » Blog Archive » Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey
Oath #2
2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects -- such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.
Hammerhead
Master
So, instead of responding to my comments, you spout off "It's SOP and I have to. Registry. Stolen. Just following orders."
Sorry if I don't believe you.
Sorry if I don't believe you.
Seems that these types of heated discussions are becoming more frequent recently. Too bad really since the OP was giving credit for what they considered to be a positive experience. Now I see somebody being accused of trolling. (and perhaps they are?) Since I have been one to be on both sides of this argument (and neg rep is no more 
) I will kind of come to Joshua_xdm rescue.
1) Yes I think disarming peaceful, legal and responsible citizens is a violation of civil rights.
2) Not every person with an LTCH is automatically in the above category. But there is no reason to assume they aren't either. (But hey feel free to check and make sure it is valid)
3) Police can and should be able to disarm people whom they have a good reason to believe might pose a threat. But just because a person has a gun does not make them dangerous.
4) I have no problem with police "running numbers" on a gun to check if it is stolen. I even would agree this action is legit. But they better have a good reason (be able to articulate a reason) for taking it away and checking it in the first place.
My guess is that departments with an SOP to check all guns is because they don't want the liability of putting a stolen gun back on the street. I assume it is meant for those situations where an officer has a valid reason for removing a gun from a person. Unfortunately there are some officers who might not understand what is at stake or might take it upon themselves to ignore what is right.
It concerns me that the actions of a minority of LEOs has perpetuated the "us vs them" mentality. It concerns me that officers are needlessly handling loaded guns on the street. It concerns me that some officers don't understand why people get upset about civil rights.......... But it also concerns me that I feel like I should not inform an officer of the fact that I am armed. Seriously, I have nothing to hide. I also don't like that I have become somewhat critical of the actions of some officers since I want to welcome the input of LEOs to places like INGO.
It would be great if we could just hand the officer our drivers and handgun license at a traffic stop, get our ticket and a have a nice day. (insert hugs, butterfly and kittens
) Respect is something a person has to earn.
) I will kind of come to Joshua_xdm rescue.1) Yes I think disarming peaceful, legal and responsible citizens is a violation of civil rights.
2) Not every person with an LTCH is automatically in the above category. But there is no reason to assume they aren't either. (But hey feel free to check and make sure it is valid)
3) Police can and should be able to disarm people whom they have a good reason to believe might pose a threat. But just because a person has a gun does not make them dangerous.
4) I have no problem with police "running numbers" on a gun to check if it is stolen. I even would agree this action is legit. But they better have a good reason (be able to articulate a reason) for taking it away and checking it in the first place.
My guess is that departments with an SOP to check all guns is because they don't want the liability of putting a stolen gun back on the street. I assume it is meant for those situations where an officer has a valid reason for removing a gun from a person. Unfortunately there are some officers who might not understand what is at stake or might take it upon themselves to ignore what is right.
It concerns me that the actions of a minority of LEOs has perpetuated the "us vs them" mentality. It concerns me that officers are needlessly handling loaded guns on the street. It concerns me that some officers don't understand why people get upset about civil rights.......... But it also concerns me that I feel like I should not inform an officer of the fact that I am armed. Seriously, I have nothing to hide. I also don't like that I have become somewhat critical of the actions of some officers since I want to welcome the input of LEOs to places like INGO.
It would be great if we could just hand the officer our drivers and handgun license at a traffic stop, get our ticket and a have a nice day. (insert hugs, butterfly and kittens
) Respect is something a person has to earn.
Very true. Being a LEO does not make you a good person, luckily it is only a minority that abuse their status.
Just like the certain members of INGO jumping down the throat of every LEO that says anything along the lines of what Josh was saying. He just wants to go home to his wife at the end of the shift. He has the same reason for checking firearms as you do for carrying!
Where's the love, guys?
Very true. Being a LEO does not make you a good person, luckily it is only a minority that abuse their status.
Just like the certain members of INGO jumping down the throat of every LEO that says anything along the lines of what Josh was saying. He just wants to go home to his wife at the end of the shift. He has the same reason for checking firearms as you do for carrying!
Where's the love, guys?
So basically, you are saying..
We shouldnt stand up for our Rights
We should accept being disarmed even though it is in most cases illegal, and ALWAYS unsafe
We should allow our property to be illegally confiscated for the purpose of a "registry" check
A Citizen being concerned about THEIR safety and going home to THEIR wife is not as important as the same for a LEO
We should show "love" for all of the above
Do I have that about right?
GuyRelford
Master
No, it's not.
If you're actually a LEO, you really should read State v. Washington and distribute the opinion around your department. You'll see how your department "SOP" actually violates the 4th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Article I, Section 11 of the Indiana Constitution.
For your convenience: http://www.ai.org/judiciary/opinions/pdf/03041001jsk.pdf
Guy
mydoghasfleas
Expert
This ^^ is how I thought it was.
But now learning that some officers (but I dont think very many) may "ask" me to take my glock (with one in the chamber, ready to fire with a pull of the triger) out of the safety of the holster. Then, pass it to someone whom I am not sure of thier level of familiarity with my particular gun for a "routine" numbers check? This gives me pause.
I know very well how to handle my firearm and a big part of that is not playing with it with my wife and kids in the car and bystanders all around. THAT would seem to be "asking for trouble" and makes it more dangerous for everyone within a couple hundred yards, including the officer.
I would have told you to make you "feel" safer, but not at the risk of not BEING safer. Not with the knowlege that I could hear.. "sir could you remove you handgun and pass it to me" because I would probably refuse unless ordered to and would cite the reasons stated above.
You guys have a dangerous job and I give you my upmost respect. But it seems your job would be even more dangerous asking strangers to hand you thier loaded gun. I wouldnt want to be on the recieving end of an ND
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What department do you work for?
You have a lot of learning to do! We have NO registration of guns and/or serial numbers in Indiana!
What "all the fuss" is about is your ignorance of the law and the fact that you say you are a police officer! That's SCARY!!!!!
Besides learning the laws you are supposedly ENFORCING, you may want to learn to spell also!
Josh (if that is your real name
How do you sleep at night knowing you are promoting what you are saying - intentionally violating rights. I have been reading and hoping you were just miscommunicating what you really do.
Are you saying that if a driver produces a valid LTCH, that you still run the serial numbers to see if it is stolen?
Also, I know there is not an FAQ on INGO, but if there were it would probably address your comment regarding IN's gun registry. There is only a gun registry if you OC. that is why we have a LTCH (aka "concealed carry permit"). Got it?
A gun registry if you open carry????
WTF are YOU talking about???Sounds like you and Joshua learned form the same book!!
Hayseed_40
Expert
A gun registry if you open carry????
Sounds like you and Joshua learned form the same book!!
Sometimes sarcasm is my only friend...
When my purple is done recharging, I will go back and edit my post.
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