Profiteering Off Personal Protection

[Hookeye]

Pricing is an agreement.
They can only sell for what folks are willing to pay.
If some folks panic/don't plan ahead, and are willing to outdo the next possible purchaser by paying well above retail, so be it. It's their money.
Once those folks have what they want, the prices will come down.

I don't like how the stupid have messed up the gun/ammo/parts prices. But then a bunch of other stupid mofos put a POS back in the Whitehouse.

Stupid costs everybody, sooner or later, everywhere.

 

[chizzle]

Lol, funny. Someone else has a sense of community. Kudos to them.

Not sure if you missed these questions previously as they were kinda buried in the middle of the thread:

If we don't use the current supply and demand equilibrium point to determine the current value of a good or service, what method should we use?

Do you think it is more moral to hold prices below the current supply and demand equilibrium, only to create a black / gray secondary market that reflects the current market conditions? If you don't like the secondary markets that more rapidly react to market conditions, what should be done about them?

How is it detrimental to either the buyer or the seller for me to purchase a good at the current market price of my own free will?

 

[printcraft]

..............
How is it detrimental to either the buyer or the seller for me to purchase a good at the current market price of my own free will?

Simple answer is that it's not. People are free to do just that.

I just believe the stupid amongst us are causing the prices to be set unrealistically high.

 

[chizzle]

Simple answer is that it's not. People are free to do just that.

I just believe the stupid amongst us are causing the prices to be set unrealistically high.

What determines a "realistic" price?

 

[printcraft]

What determines a "realistic" price?

Common sense?

 

[chizzle]

Common sense?

If I have 0 Pmags and I'm willing to pay $50 for a Pmag due to limited availability, does that meet your definition of common sense? To me, my security is worth the $50, and I'm happy to pay it.

 

[Rob377]

Yikes. This is as bad of a snap decision as the politicians that call for immediate changes to our gun laws in response to Sandy Hook; it may make them feel better, but it only exacerbates the actual problem.

He's being rational in the sense that he doesn't want divisive panic-driven pricing on his board. The larger problem of allocating panic buy items isn't his to deal with. Maintaining a community/ culture he thinks has value on his discussion board, however, is his problem.

Who are we to criticize how he runs his board?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not sure if you missed these questions previously as they were kinda buried in the middle of the thread:

If we don't use the current supply and demand equilibrium point to determine the current value of a good or service, what method should we use?

Do you think it is more moral to hold prices below the current supply and demand equilibrium, only to create a black / gray secondary market that reflects the current market conditions? If you don't like the secondary markets that more rapidly react to market conditions, what should be done about them?

How is it detrimental to either the buyer or the seller for me to purchase a good at the current market price of my own free will?

Give me a couple hours, I gotta run real quick...

 

[Miles42]

Human nature. Well it is in this country at least. These are not pioneer days when people came together for self preservation. Everyone is willing to stand alone when it comes to making a buck. My suggestion CYA no one else is going to.

 

[printcraft]

If I have 0 Pmags and I'm willing to pay $50 for a Pmag due to limited availability, does that meet your definition of common sense? To me, my security is worth the $50, and I'm happy to pay it.

As always, that is your call.

The whole, "OMG there MIGHT be a ban on these I better buy all I can
no matter what the cost!!!" mindset is driving the prices up unrealistically.

These are not normal market forces, it is a stupidity bubble.

 

[hornadylnl]

This is an intellectually dishonest argument, and I have seen it stated a number of times of times. I'm responding to you because I think your smart, and have more familiarity (not saying the other aren't "smart").

It has not been suggested nor implied that people "socialize" their items. It has not been hinted at that people try not to reap profit. This is all about people taking advantage of other people under the guise of "if you don't get it now, you probably never will."
Let's not be coy, the people buying this stuff are doing so because they think that they will honestly probably never have a chance to get it again. The people selling this stuff are mostly doing so because they know that premise to be false, and that they will easily be able to replace their wares in the future. The entire premise of the transaction is based on a hysteria created from deceit.
Now, is it the sellers job to inform the the buyer? Nope, not at all, but I personally couldn't live with myself, if I knew I sold something for 10 times the value based on the ignorance of the buyer.
I'm not suggesting that we become the Borg Collective, I'm suggesting that we nuture our community, and watch out for each other. There's nothing socialist about voluntarily doing right by your brother, who shares your views; especially when it is not forcefully coerced.
At the end of the day, those that are doing this type of stuff have weakened the gun owner community.

I agree with this until the have nots act as though the haves should give them a deal. If I knew someone who was looking for a mag or 2, I might make them a deal. If they come to me expecting me to make them a deal, sorry about their luck. Make fun of me for being prepared, don't expect any charity from me when you now decide to become prepared.

 

[chizzle]

He's being rational in the sense that he doesn't want divisive panic-driven pricing on his board. The larger problem of allocating panic buy items isn't his to deal with. Maintaining a community/ culture he thinks has value on his discussion board, however, is his problem.

I understand your point, I just think he's attacking the wrong thing. To me, he's attacking the product of bad reasoning. The Sig forum can no more prevent prices from coming up to meet the new supply and demand equilibrium than it can prevent gravity. The only difference will be that people will go elsewhere (hopefully to a friendly place called INGO). It sounds to me like the Sig forum is fine with that, but I'd be really disappointed if INGO classifieds fell to the same kind of restrictions.

Can you imagine:
1) Moderators determining if your prices were "fair" or "gouging"?
2) Moderators determining if you were a "good member" or "profiteer"?

If you think a few steps ahead, it puts both the moderators and regular users in a really tough spot. If those rules were enacted, I wouldn't want to be the poor Moderator that had to make those decisions.

 

[printcraft]

Stupidity bubble in action... \/


Someone convince me that this is in any way a modicum of common sense.

Magpul PMAG 30 Round New Magazine P Mag 30RD AR 15 Ar15 P Mag AR 15 NIP | eBay

$237.50 for one magazine

 

[chizzle]

As always, that is your call.

The whole, "OMG there MIGHT be a ban on these I better buy all I can
no matter what the cost!!!" mindset is driving the prices up unrealistically.

These are not normal market forces, it is a stupidity bubble.

Call it what you will, this is still what Economics calls supply and demand. I'm not saying that we have to love the fact that prices have recently jumped due to a spike in demand (I know I don't), but I am saying that folks screaming that every elevated price is "PRICE GOUGING!!!" actually makes the Economic system work worse... Let the prices come up to their new equilibrium, and then watch the system stabilize.

 

[Solitaire]

Anybody with any sense at all should have already had an AR or an AK if they wanted it. If you couldn't afford it when decent ARs were less than a grand and decent AKs were less than $700, quit whining that you can't afford it now.

I bought 10 P-mags for $100 with free shipping about a year ago. Where were all of these panicking goofs who couldn't live without them when prices were reasonable?

All of this whining about "community" is ridiculous. Things cost what they cost, as determined by the market. Panic buyers are the victims of their own stupidity, and they deserve all of the "gouging" that they get.

Comparing these rifles and their accessories to food or oil is ludicrous. One can do anything that a firearm is needed for quite handily without the need for expensive military pattern rifles. (This is not an argument in favor of a ban, it is a practical observation) I can buy a good quality shotgun, lever action rifle and pistol for less than what one AR is going for right now.

Today's lesson: Those who fail to plan, plan to fail.

 

[printcraft]

............ Panic buyers are the victims of their own stupidity, and they deserve all of the "gouging" that they get.
.......

I'm going to be laughing my butt off at the same panic buyers
that are trying to sell those AR's for $2000 next year when the
market comes back down to "normal" levels.

 

[chizzle]

I'm going to be laughing my butt off at the same panic buyers
that are trying to sell those AR's for $2000 next year when the
market comes back down to "normal" levels.

So what's your message here? I feel like we're talking across each other because we've got 2 different goals:

My goal: Relax and let the prices stabilize, so we can promote more investment in production.

Your goal: Brow-beat the panic buyers into not buying or try to convince them that prices will drop and they will have made a bad investment.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but it just seems like we have very different goals with our arguments. Am I wrong?

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm going to be laughing my butt off at the same panic buyers
that are trying to sell those AR's for $2000 next year when the
market comes back down to "normal" levels.

And that will be their problem alone. I feel no responsiblity to protect them. They're big boys. If we want to get rid of the nanny state mentality, let's get rid of it.

 

[rugertoter]

I have never thought that people in the "gun community" are any different than anyone else, well not that much different. Just because we help each other out at the range does not mean that it would be the same under stress.

We share a common interest and that tends to loosely bind us together a little more than the rest of the world, but does not form a "band of brothers". It takes more than a gun to do that. Unfortunately, I think the anti-gun morons see this too, and are about to capitalize on this.

The businesses that make this stuff we use are really no different than a company that makes shirts or shoes. They are all just as greedy to increase the bottom line as anybody else. I think what ticks us off is that we think they are going to be somehow different because they make guns, and gun people stick together and...yeah.

I don't like or agree with this crap anymore than the rest of you do, but in the end we find out that people will be people and companies will be companies...yes, even when it comes to guns and ammo.

 

[chizzle]

The businesses that make this stuff we use are really no different than a company that makes shirts or shoes. They are all just as greedy to increase the bottom line as anybody else.

Where do you think they fund their support for the NRA, GOA, lobbyists, etc.?

Is profit bad or evil in some way?

Would their ability to produce us goods that we enjoy be more secure if they made less money?