Profiteering Off Personal Protection

[Bunnykid68]

Generally agree with you, and wanted to expand on a couple of items that are quoted above.

Re the price of middle eastern oil - Our gov't has yielded to big oil's money, while taking minimal steps toward energy independence, so that's where the finger should be pointed. The finger should also be pointed at those who complain about subsidies for renewable energy. It's apparently OK to subsidize big oil with tax breaks, but when solar (for example) is subsidized, the gov't is "picking winners and losers".

Re the comment about being a community - you're right, we aren't a community. A community acts collectively in it's own best interest, but any suggestion of "collective" action is met with cries of "socialism" by many of us. We are further weakened when we allow those powerful organizations and individuals that profit the most to divide us on things like social issues and "right to work" (really it's right to work for less, and being set free to fight a huge organization alone; but that's another rant). My impression is that the general opinion on this board is that collective action is bad. Your statement that we miss the big picture is dead on.

It confuses (and amuses) me when people resist acting as a community when it comes to guaranteeing basic human rights like adequate food, housing, and health care for everyone (no, they aren't in the constitution - they are HUMAN rights), but when it comes to the right to self defense they scream bloody murder. Perhaps if we acted more like an inclusive community, there would be less of a need to defend ourselves.

A right to food, housing, and health care? You do not have a right to any of those things unless you can produce them yourselves or force someone to give them to you

 

[SERparacord]

A right to food, housing, and health care? You do not have a right to any of those things unless you can produce them yourselves or force someone to give them to you

Surely you do not mean work for what you want!!!!! *insert shocked horrified smile*

 

[Bunnykid68]

Surely you do not mean work for what you want!!!!! *insert shocked horrified smile*

Just a thought

 

[Stickfight]

Still waiting for an explanation of why someone who isn't party to a transaction should get to stick their nose into it.

There are 100 of you on here complaining. Between you, you can't come up with a justification?

 

[SERparacord]

Just a thought

You are not very progressive!

 

[chizzle]

Still waiting for an explanation of why someone who isn't party to a transaction should get to stick their nose into it.

There are 100 of you on here complaining. Between you, you can't come up with a justification?

I like your question and had a question of my own. How does complaining about the phenomenon you call "price gouging" actually help consumers adjust to the new supply and demand curve? Does it appear to be working?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Still waiting for an explanation of why someone who isn't party to a transaction should get to stick their nose into it.

There are 100 of you on here complaining. Between you, you can't come up with a justification?

There's a difference between complaining and sticking your nose in. Not one person that I've seen has called for any regulations or gov't interference. Not one person has suggested the transactions shouldn't be allowed.

You are perfectly free to price gouge/profiteer/participate in the free market. I'm free to think less of you and cease to do business with you for it. Freedom works both ways.

 

[hornadylnl]

I like to do charitable things for others but don't do it near as much as I should. I like to do things for those who don't expect it and appreciate it. I don't do it out of compulsion as doing so is not charity.

I hauled 3 truck loads of wood to an 87 year old man and when I get the time and the ground dries out, I plan to take him at least 3 more loads. I gave 2 loads to another guy who wanted to pay me for it and I've refused both times. Today, he repaid me by letting me use his box brake to bend a piece of steel.

I paid a $10 tip on a $26 meal Saturday. I would normally leave $5-6 on a bill like that but it's Christmas and my waiter gave great service. Some time ago, I broke the gas shock for my dump bed on my John Deere Gator. The plastic end stripped out and I was going to have to buy a new shock at the dealer. I found the company that made the shock and they sent me 4 new ends free of charge, IIRC. I upgraded to the dump kit so I no longer needed them. A guy on the gator forum had the same issue so I just mailed him 2 of the ends on my dime. The guy asked what he owed and I simply told him to pay it forward.

I take pleasure in doing the unexpected and appreciated things. But the moment someone tries to compel me, I won't do it. Sure, I could sell some of my stash at decent prices but what if I can never replenish them? Why should I be guilted into selling something to the lazy who now feel entitled to what they want at prices they deem fair?

 

[sporter]

Someone get this guy a box of kleenex.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I am sorry, but I disagree.
First of all, the whole "community" angle your pushing is purely socialist BS. It is not my responsibility to worry about those who are unprepared. Nor, is it my problem to concern myself with those who have finally seen the light and have just started their "collection".

This is exactly what I am talking about. It isn't your "responsibilty to worry about the unprepared." It's never anybody's "responsibility" to do anything... until it's you that's the victim, and then who will you look to? It's "Socialist BS" if you are being forced to help solve this issue. I believe I'm clear that I'm advocating no such thing. But as these people could potentially be standing on the "front lines" one day, why should they expect you to be there? Your "responsibility" is clearly to self, and that's your right.

When did gun owners start hating capitalism so much? If you don't like the price, don't buy it. If you don't like it, look in another direction or ignore it.

The market will bear what you are willing to pay.

Adam Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Adam Smith agreed that self-interest was very useful in Capitalistic societies, but also warned that it should not override "nobler virtues," to the point of becoming greed via deceit. You should read the The Theory of Moral Sentiments, which drives that point home. Having read quite a bit of Smith, it is my opinion, that he would have found issue with the practices that are currently going on. If you want me to go more in depth, I certainly can.

Do you often complain about the things you don't hate? It is your right to complain about capitalism. It seems pretty irrational to think that you like something that you would also complain about.

Things I like: guns, Ferraris, single barrel or single malt Scotch, boobs and dead languages.

Ferraris: It's not American
Scotch: I get drunk too fast because it tastes so goo
Boobs: floppy ones or big areolas
Dead Languages: Not enough people to talk with

...all valid complaints, and I like them all

Yes it is. The fundamental basis of capitalism is the ability of people to voluntarily participate in markets. You are complaining about exactly that.

Profit is not evil.

Agreeing to sell a person something for a price they are willing to pay is not evil.

Offering goods at any price, no matter how exorbitant, to buyers voluntarily participating in a market, is not evil.

None of this is bad in any way at all.

People want AR15s. Sellers provide them. These are both good things. Both the buyers and the sellers leave happy. Why should you be able to dictate to either party how they should behave?

In theory you'd be correct. However, there is a fair amount of deceit involved because the selling practices, we are currently experiencing, are founded on the basis of market with a limited time to participate.
Now, if the sellers are of the belief that a ban is inevitable, then their practices are valid. If they believe the contrary, then they are taking advantage based on a false premise; which is bad.

Surely you know the difference between a free market and cartel operated floor pricing?

I see nothing wrong with buyer and seller coming together and conducting business absent fraud or misrepresentation.

You hit the nail on the head Kirk. My contention is that many of these sellers are misrepresenting the climate, and taking advantage of the hysteria.

Sorry, friend, but you seem to be making a distinction between greed and capitalism. A capitalist economy is an economy run on greed.

Mind you, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but you're a bit deluded if you think otherwise.

If Adam Smith is indeed the "Father of Capitalism," you would be incorrect. If your claim is correct, greed would create efficient markets. Clearly that is not true. There is certainly a difference between "self-interest" and "greed."

Are people really advocating that there is a need for an AR or AK for self defense? While I'm as anti ban as anyone and would like to pick up a nice AR for myself, I'm not deluding myself myself into thinking I need it to defend my home. Pistols, sure, there is a need for them as it's hard to conceal a long gun, but a shotgun can be just as effective at defending one's home as an AR and in come cases be a better choice. Count me as one of those who will not pay outrageous prices just because I want something. There will be alternatives.

This thought is scary. You may not think you need it, but there have been numerous instances throughout history, American History, where people wished they would have a lil more firepower.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Still waiting for an explanation of why someone who isn't party to a transaction should get to stick their nose into it.

There are 100 of you on here complaining. Between you, you can't come up with a justification?

Well, freedom of speech allow me to "stick my nose into it." If I am not physically preventing anyone from doing anything, then my opinion can be freely stated without consequences.

That's a pretty solid justification, and easily constructed.

 

[churchmouse]

No you said "Know several LGS owners and employees and they say the same things. Profiteers...period." now this is either a statement of fact or a convient excuse ( scape goat) from your LGS to explain why they are sold out.

Either way you and everyone else can get your reveng by not buying what the "profiteers" are selling and making them take a loss to unload it, its called the power of the pocketbook.

Easy on the red. Read the post. They stated they saw the same as I did, non gun people looking to score but they were not practicing it. I would not call these men friends if they did. If I did not fully explain then I apologize. I am a product of the public school system.
I get it brother, I really do. I just do not care for the profiteers who jump from this deal to the next. No more, no less.
I see your point but again, you missed mine.

Merry Christmas to all. Enjoy the holidays. Much to be thankful for.

CM

 

[Rob377]

Take a look at another forum's response to the madness.

So, you use this forum only to post ads in Classifieds, and you're now posting items well above list price? Well, guess what? - Topic

 

[churchmouse]

Take a look at another forum's response to the madness.

So, you use this forum only to post ads in Classifieds, and you're now posting items well above list price? Well, guess what? - Topic

Well there you go.
Is that socialism?????????


Interesting.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Since we're all about "community" let's do this. Let's start a thread where everyone pools their ARs and AKs, and their ammo, and their magazines. Everyone in INGO should do this. Then, we'll distribute all of these items equally, and the people who have more than the allotted amount should be compensated at the value of the items prior to the upspike in profits.

After all, what's the difference between a business owner who has mags and will sell them for a greater price and an individual who has a bunch of mags and won't sell them at all? That seems stingier than the guy who'll sell them at a higher price. At least he's willing to part with them.

It doesn't take much to see the socialism start leaking out of people. As soon as it affects their retirement, or their benefits or their desire to have magazines, it's all about community and collectivism.

This is an intellectually dishonest argument, and I have seen it stated a number of times of times. I'm responding to you because I think your smart, and have more familiarity (not saying the other aren't "smart").

It has not been suggested nor implied that people "socialize" their items. It has not been hinted at that people try not to reap profit. This is all about people taking advantage of other people under the guise of "if you don't get it now, you probably never will."
Let's not be coy, the people buying this stuff are doing so because they think that they will honestly probably never have a chance to get it again. The people selling this stuff are mostly doing so because they know that premise to be false, and that they will easily be able to replace their wares in the future. The entire premise of the transaction is based on a hysteria created from deceit.
Now, is it the sellers job to inform the the buyer? Nope, not at all, but I personally couldn't live with myself, if I knew I sold something for 10 times the value based on the ignorance of the buyer.
I'm not suggesting that we become the Borg Collective, I'm suggesting that we nuture our community, and watch out for each other. There's nothing socialist about voluntarily doing right by your brother, who shares your views; especially when it is not forcefully coerced.
At the end of the day, those that are doing this type of stuff have weakened the gun owner community.

 

[Rob377]

Well there you go.
Is that socialism?????????


Interesting.

His house, his rules, no?

 

[poptab]

Start your own collective or coop. Or is that illegal? I wouldn't be surprised.
Indiana Gun Coop. Hell I would prolly join.

 

[chizzle]

Take a look at another forum's response to the madness.

So, you use this forum only to post ads in Classifieds, and you're now posting items well above list price? Well, guess what? - Topic

Yikes. This is as bad of a snap decision as the politicians that call for immediate changes to our gun laws in response to Sandy Hook; it may make them feel better, but it only exacerbates the actual problem.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Well there you go.
Is that socialism?????????


Interesting.

No, that is a dictatorship, his house, his rules

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well there you go.
Is that socialism?????????


Interesting.

Lol, funny. Someone else has a sense of community. Kudos to them.