Porter County Speeding Ticket...

[Lobo]

The Law doesn't make mistakes.

Troll Alert.

 

[steveh_131]

Let me make this clear. It is obvious that you got busted and do not deny it yet you cry because you got caught. Let me make this clear. In English, French, Spanish, Italian, and Greek.
MAN UP MOVE ON.
So you pay his paycheck so now your his boss and your god almighty? I love this! You know, they take taxes out of his paycheck too, right? So that means he pays his own paycheck. MAN UP move on and stop crying.

He's not crying about getting caught.

He's complaining about a cop acting like a jerk.

And yes, police officers are hired to SERVE the public. That is their purpose. They should treat us as their employers, not as rodents to be stomped on.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Not sure, police are hired to UPHOLD the law. The serve and protect stuff I think is a PR situation. Have had LOTS of cops tell me that there is a difference and they are taught to uphold the law, pretty much leaving the serving public thing to personal discretion. At least, that is what they tell little Civvie me!

Think he is crying that he got caught by displacing his feelings onto the officer. He got caught, but is painting the picture, to which we only have one side, to make him out to be downtrodden to lessen the concept that he was grossly over speed posted. Sort of a image damage control. He wanted to vent, who wouldn't? But don't do the crime if you can't do the time? His interactions with others in this thread range from happy/cordial to rather nasty, but within forum parameters and based on level of criticism. No offense to the OP, but I am just calling it as posted.

It's open season on cops and offduty/onduty behavior so everyone that gets a paper cut from a government form is claiming they kicked in their door and cut em up with a Gerber. Not just here, but in conversations with others and friends. Someone gets a ticket, the cop was a dink. Someone gets a warning, the cop was a jerk. Never mind that one of the people I talked with was doing 110 on 465... The cop was the jerk for pulling him over... Sort of like the ligitation "shark effect".

 

[edporch]

-snip-
But, to be honest, where was the fire? 71 in a 55 is a bit much.
-snip-

Actually, it isn't.
The problem is, our government LIED to us...

I'm old enough to remember the Arab Oil Embargo in the early '70s.

We were told that the 55 speed limit was just a "TEMPORARY" measure to reduce fuel consumption, and that when the oil embargo ended, the speed limits would ALL be RESTORED.

Before the TEMPORARY 55mph speed limit, the speed limit on Hwy 49 was 65mph and people typically drove 70mph.
And that was with 1950's-60's era cars.
This was true on most all 2 lane highways in the flat open areas of NW Indiana where I grew up.

The REAL issue here is that the government got used to the increase in revenue from speeding tickets that came in from having unreasonably LOW speed limits.

This ALL goes back to the "TEMPORARY" 55mph speed limit of the Arab Oil Embargo of the early 1970's.

So in my mind MORALLY, the speed limit on all interstates has been 70mph and 65 mph on 2 lane highways since the Arab Oil Embargo ended, because that's what we were PROMISED so we'd go along with it.

AGAIN. it's ALL ABOUT REVENUE...

 

[steveh_131]

Not sure, police are hired to UPHOLD the law. The serve and protect stuff I think is a PR situation. Have had LOTS of cops tell me that there is a difference and they are taught to uphold the law, pretty much leaving the serving public thing to personal discretion. At least, that is what they tell little Civvie me!

Well of course they prefer to believe they serve some higher master. Some lofty goal or purpose such as "the law". It's so much easier to pretend that you are better than everyone else that way.

Their denial does not change reality. We are their employer. Period. It's time that we were treated that way.

 

[jsharmon7]

How can I be as helpful as possible, while also being honest? Okay, if this officer really was that evil and terrible to you then by all means file a complaint on his lack of professionalism. It would behoove you to be as calm and rational as you can be when you file the complaint though because lots of people who get tickets make complaints against the officer as a way of "getting even." As with anything else, the person who receives your complaint is going to tune you out if you call and start ranting and raving. If you are calm and rational then they may be more apt to listen to you. Also keep in mind that complaints are common and a singular complaint probably isn't going to go anywhere unless the person you speak to truly believes you were wronged.

Now for reality, you could have avoided this situation by traveling NEAR the speed limit. You stated that no one obeys the speed limit, this is false. Even the ones who do break the speed limit only go over by 5 or 6 mph. When you start to hit double digits though you're going to attract attention. As far as the officer's speed, how else will he catch up with you? Should the police let every speeder go because they would have to speed to catch them? Besides, YOU put him in that situation by YOUR actions. I'm also confused as to why you mentioned the possible loss of your job. If you knew money was tight why would you do something that could cause you to lose more of it? The rare times that I drive more than a few miles per hour over the limit in my personal vehicle I know in the back of my mind that it could end with a ticket and some insurance "adjustments" if I were to get stopped. Honestly though, I have never been pulled over. I know most won't believe it, but I really have never been pulled over. I do tend to obey the speed limit or keep it within a few miles per hour, I fix my headlights when they burn out, I use my turn signals, I stop at stop signs, and I do all the other little things that help to avoid attention. It has worked miraculously well for me so far.

And we're NOT the police officer's boss, nor do we pay his salary. The day that you personally sign his check or have the ability to fire him or promote him, that's the day that you're his boss. You're his customer. You do have certain expectations as a customer, and you're more than welcome to complain to his superiors about poor customer service. If one of your customers were to come into your place of employment and start talking about being your boss, how would you take it? He's important because he's your customer, but he isn't your boss...

 

[Disposable Heart]

edporch, thank you for that insight! Very informative, didn't know about the temporary speed limit due to the embargo and revenue approach. All I know about the embargo was what I learned in school plus my philosophy to saving gas that was popular at the time of the embargo: "press the accelarator as if you had an egg under your foot" or similar slogan. Does help out in the fuel economy!

steveh, true, but therein lies the issue with "representative" style government: The only way we can change things is by voting in people that will initiate the change. But the people we "hire" via representation don't follow the ideals that WE charge them with. They make the rules and determine who gets hired to be a police officer with our money.

You do bring up an excellent point is that while we do not sign the checks or have hiring/firing power, maybe some of the voted upon positions (or positions appointed by those we vote in) need to be reminded of their duty to US and what we put them into power for. We don't necessarily sign the checks but we pay into the fund. Instead of following their lofty ideals or similar, as you said, they should remind themselves of who they work for and ask US if we want 55 MPH or ask US if we want a pay raise for police, instead of the fox guarding the hen house approach that republic style governance has been abused to be by those in power?

On the other hand, we agreed to the terms handed down to us via social contract by voting in the people we did. By getting into the car, I am agreeing to abide by the laws handed down via social contract, etc... Tough balance...

 

[The Keymaster]

Those of us that have lived in Porter County for a significant amount of time have seen the transition from what was, to what is now. Over the last 10 years the County police force has become much, much younger. Gone are the days that I remember where I knew most of the officers by their first names. Back then the citizens that wanted to could actually have a repoir with the officers. There were a lot more verbal warnings, and a lot of the minor stuff just went away. Now, being a Porter County deputy is just a job. The youth movement has put officers on the road that have not had the opportunity to develop people skills because many of them are still in their early to mid 20's. I have become aware of that, and have altered my behavior in order to adapt to these changes. I am not saying what the officer did was right, I am saying that he may need additional training.

I will say that the OP may be putting himself in a situation that will come back to haunt him later. This is a very politically oriented department. With the technology at hand it may behoove him to give this whole thing some thought. Making trouble for s deputy may cause more trouble than it is worth in the long run. My

 

[40calPUNISHER]

This report should get you're complaint moving in the right direction..

 

[40calPUNISHER]

Here is a form from all the people posting comments that you dont agree with.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Here is a form from all the people posting comments that you dont agree with.

paper rock scissors. but flame thrower beats them all

 

[tom1025]

Those of us that have lived in Porter County for a significant amount of time have seen the transition from what was, to what is now. Over the last 10 years the County police force has become much, much younger. Gone are the days that I remember where I knew most of the officers by their first names. Back then the citizens that wanted to could actually have a repoir with the officers. There were a lot more verbal warnings, and a lot of the minor stuff just went away. Now, being a Porter County deputy is just a job. The youth movement has put officers on the road that have not had the opportunity to develop people skills because many of them are still in their early to mid 20's. I have become aware of that, and have altered my behavior in order to adapt to these changes. I am not saying what the officer did was right, I am saying that he may need additional training.

I will say that the OP may be putting himself in a situation that will come back to haunt him later. This is a very politically oriented department. With the technology at hand it may behoove him to give this whole thing some thought. Making trouble for s deputy may cause more trouble than it is worth in the long run. My

That's because giving verbal warnings all the time dosnt make the county or local city goverment any money.

 

[tom1025]

How can I be as helpful as possible, while also being honest? Okay, if this officer really was that evil and terrible to you then by all means file a complaint on his lack of professionalism. It would behoove you to be as calm and rational as you can be when you file the complaint though because lots of people who get tickets make complaints against the officer as a way of "getting even." As with anything else, the person who receives your complaint is going to tune you out if you call and start ranting and raving. If you are calm and rational then they may be more apt to listen to you. Also keep in mind that complaints are common and a singular complaint probably isn't going to go anywhere unless the person you speak to truly believes you were wronged.

Now for reality, you could have avoided this situation by traveling NEAR the speed limit. You stated that no one obeys the speed limit, this is false. Even the ones who do break the speed limit only go over by 5 or 6 mph. When you start to hit double digits though you're going to attract attention. As far as the officer's speed, how else will he catch b

up with you? Should the police let every speeder go because they would have to speed to catch them? Besides, YOU put him in that situation by YOUR actions. I'm also confused as to why you mentioned the possible loss of your job. If you knew money was tight why would you do something that could cause you to lose more of it? The rare times that I drive more than a few miles per hour over the limit in my personal vehicle I know in the back of my mind that it could end with a ticket and some insurance "adjustments" if I were to get stopped. Honestly though, I have never been pulled over. I know most won't believe it, but I really have never been pulled over. I do tend to obey the speed limit or keep it within a few miles per hour, I fix my headlights when they burn out, I use my turn signals, I stop at stop signs, and I do all the other little things that help to avoid attention. It has worked miraculously well for me so far.

And we're NOT the police officer's boss, nor do we pay his salary. The day that you personally sign his check or have the ability to fire him or promote him, that's the day that you're his boss. You're his customer. You do have certain expectations as a customer, and you're more than welcome to complain to his superiors about poor customer service. If one of your customers were to come into your place of employment and start talking about being your boss, how would you take it? He's important because he's your customer, but he isn't your boss...

+1.

OP needs to man up. The officer was justing doing his job. I am sure the OP gave him attitude. You see it in his post. I use to collect on bad car loans. I always hated calling people who have god bless on there answering machine they were always the first ones to start cussin and yelling as soon as they found out why I was calling. You always know its going to be a good story when it start out with I was on my way to church and!!!!!

Also how many times have were heard about murders, drug dealers or anybody else wanted being arrested after being pulled over for a minor traffic violation.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Also how many times have were heard about murders, drug dealers or anybody else wanted being arrested after being pulled over for a minor traffic violation.

^^ but this does not mean that you can just assume everyone is one of those and treat them bad. many more "normal" people are pulled over than hardcore criminals. this related to the govts view that surrendering some of your rights to be safe is acceptable (patriot act). but its really not. we dont know if he got an attitude or not. you would think i may have an attitude with an officer if pulled over, but you would be wrong. i simply do not answer any questions, or speak.

 

[edporch]

edporch, thank you for that insight! Very informative, didn't know about the temporary speed limit due to the embargo and revenue approach. All I know about the embargo was what I learned in school plus my philosophy to saving gas that was popular at the time of the embargo: "press the accelarator as if you had an egg under your foot" or similar slogan. Does help out in the fuel economy!
-Snip-

As I get older, I'm beginning to see where my parents (dad born 1908, mom 1914) were coming from when I'd come home and relate what I'd been taught in school about past history, and my parents would OFTEN say "I lived through that, and that's NOT how I remember it happening...".

I lived through those times, and it was only a few people who drove slow and bought into all that.
The rest of us looked at somebody driving 50mph down the highway with a line of cars backed up behind them, thinking they were saving the world, as some kind of a nut. LOL

I bet they also didn't tell you that the Arabs only supplied 7% of our oil, yet the powers that be claimed there was at least a 30% shortage.

My dad was an independent oil distributor since the 1930's, and his suppliers would only sell him an allotment equal to what they sold him the year before, yet the company owned distributors could have all they wanted and there was NO "shortage" as far as they were concerned.

I remember a guy who's uncle worked at an oil refinery who'd been there since WW2, and he said that they had a perimeter of tanks at the refinery that hadn't been used since WW2 to store aviation gas, and even THEY were full of gasoline.
Yet the oil companies were telling people they were doing the best they could to keep the supply at the pump as high as they could.
So much of the so called "oil shortage" was a gross exaggeration, and supplies were intentionally withheld from the public.

Move forward to today, and the cars of today can easily drive 65mph much more safely on a 2 lane road like HWY 49 than the cars of 40 years ago, and get 30+ miles per gallon.
Which is roughly 3 times better mileage than cars from 40 years ago.

So I say again, most highway speed limits on wide open flat roads are artificially low, PURELY as a source of REVENUE from speeding tickets.
The government exploited the Arab Oil Embargo and so called "gasoline shortage" to give themselves another source of income.
And they RELY on people's short historical MEMORY, and distort history to the the younger generations who weren't born yet to get by with it.

 

[Hoosierdood]

So, you were going 71 in a 55? Did you know that the speed limit was 55? To be honest, I usually go anywhere between 60 and 63 in a 55mph zone. But If I get a ticket doing that, i realize that I was breaking the law.

I don't know what exactly he said to you that was rude, since you didn't post it. Maybe he was having a bad day, idk. Here is the thing though... YOU WERE SPEEDING!!! Doesn't really matter whether you agree with the speed limit, if you think it is a source of revinue for the county, or a violation of your rights. YOU BROKE THE LAW. Period. Since he obviously caught you breaking the law, he proceeded to catch up to you to stop you from breaking the law.

So, maybe you could give us all a little insight... what is a reasonable speed for the officer to travel to catch up with a person who is going 71mph? Should the officer keep his speed at 55, and hope that you stop on the side of the road to take a leak?

Obviously your problem is with the way the officer handled the situation. I wasn't there. He may have been a jerk. But complaining about his pursuit speed... thats a little ridiculous.

 

[PatriotPride]

Those of us that have lived in Porter County for a significant amount of time have seen the transition from what was, to what is now. Over the last 10 years the County police force has become much, much younger. Gone are the days that I remember where I knew most of the officers by their first names. Back then the citizens that wanted to could actually have a repoir with the officers. There were a lot more verbal warnings, and a lot of the minor stuff just went away. Now, being a Porter County deputy is just a job. The youth movement has put officers on the road that have not had the opportunity to develop people skills because many of them are still in their early to mid 20's. I have become aware of that, and have altered my behavior in order to adapt to these changes. I am not saying what the officer did was right, I am saying that he may need additional training.

I will say that the OP may be putting himself in a situation that will come back to haunt him later. This is a very politically oriented department. With the technology at hand it may behoove him to give this whole thing some thought. Making trouble for s deputy may cause more trouble than it is worth in the long run. My

First, OP I'd like to apologize for not responding to your PM sooner. As it is, I've only a few minutes before I head into work for another 16 hours, so I will reply as much as possible here.

Like Keymaster, I too have some personal insight into the situation.

-The reason that MOST Porter County officers speed in the area you were pulled over in (Rt. 49) is because that is where their Central Command is. It was just the other day that I was nearly rear-ended by a Sgt. who was driving at a speed that I'd guess to be around 85-90mph. They will continue to speed, as 49 is a relatively flat highway and who is going to pull them over???

-You were basically told to follow the chain of command with the complaint procedure. I am surprised that David Lain, piece of garbage that he is, even gave you the time of day. Likewise, as you know, his Chief Deputy Doug Snyder is a complete and utter fool. You were told to discuss this with the OIC---this means the Officer In Charge. This is a rather ambiguous term and I'm not sure how he meant it. OIC of the entire shift (Captain), Squad (Lt.) or Patrol OIC (typically Sgt.)? Regardless, follow this up as much as possible. I know this officer personally, and he has a terrible attitude that needs to be adjusted.

-Regarding your deferral...it is outrageous here in Porter County. That is exactly what I may or may not have paid for a ticket that I may or may not have recieved from the Valparaiso PD. I paid it to be safe, and I haven't sped in the problem areas since.

You have a valid complaint. Yes, you were "wrong" for speeding on a highway that has a ridiculously artificially low speed limit of 55mph when the County officers do it on a routine basis.

If you have time, it may be a good idea to fight this in court. If the officer was across the median and 3 lanes over, you can make a decent case that your vehicle was not the vehicle that he radared. However, as you've spelled out your guilt in the OP, that may not be the wisest choice. Hope this helps.

I wish I could say that I was at least a bit surprised at the attitudes and posts of some in this thread. It seems a bit early in the day for that.

 

[steveh_131]

And we're NOT the police officer's boss, nor do we pay his salary. The day that you personally sign his check or have the ability to fire him or promote him, that's the day that you're his boss. You're his customer. You do have certain expectations as a customer, and you're more than welcome to complain to his superiors about poor customer service. If one of your customers were to come into your place of employment and start talking about being your boss, how would you take it? He's important because he's your customer, but he isn't your boss...

No. You can't compare this to a service industry in a free market, because we are all forced to pay into this complete monopoly and forced to pay for their services whether we want them or not.

Let's be honest here. If any of us were actually cutting a check every year for the services of the police department, how many would actually pay a single cent for what we get from them? I wouldn't pay a damn thing.

steveh, true, but therein lies the issue with "representative" style government: The only way we can change things is by voting in people that will initiate the change. But the people we "hire" via representation don't follow the ideals that WE charge them with. They make the rules and determine who gets hired to be a police officer with our money.

I agree with this. That's why I'm directing my criticisms toward the officers themselves. They need to take personal responsibility for their attitudes towards us and correct them.

 

[PatriotPride]

Obviously your problem is with the way the officer handled the situation. I wasn't there. He may have been a jerk. But complaining about his pursuit speed... thats a little ridiculous.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP---the issue was notsomuch the SPEED in which he travelled, but the MANNER in which he behaved and discussed the alleged 100MPH pursuit.

 

[PatriotPride]

No. You can't compare this to a service industry in a free market, because we are all forced to pay into this complete monopoly and forced to pay for their services whether we want them or not.

Let's be honest here. If any of us were actually cutting a check every year for the services of the police department, how many would actually pay a single cent for what we get from them? I wouldn't pay a damn thing.

+1. We are NOT the customers of the police, and even if we WERE, the routine lack of CUSTOMER SERVICE is appaling.

If I were cutting the check for the PD, I would still pay since I need SOME of them out there still I'd just cut the size of the force down.