Politically Motivated Violence Thread PART 2

[BugI02]

Maybe he was 'disrespecting' Doltoff? That would be enough for many concealed carriers - none of them legal

 

[jamil]

The holstered firearm was in a shoulder holster under his left shoulder. You already observed that he was holding a can of pepper spray in his right hand. How is he going to draw the holstered firearm? Is his left arm double-jointed?

Why are you saying he had a firearm? I have not seen the police confirm anything of the sort. The photos make no such thing clear. Police said initially that there was a 2nd firearm recovered from the scene. But they did not say who they got it from. And it was not mentioned in the narrative of the shooting released by police. Until I hear it confirmed, I see no reason to believe Keltner was armed at the time he was shot. I've read many articles about this and none of them report that Keltner was armed. So if you have some specific information that proves he was armed, I'd appreciate a link to it. That kinda changes some things.

 

[chipbennett]

Why are you saying he had a firearm? I have not seen the police confirm anything of the sort. The photos make no such thing clear. Police said initially that there was a 2nd firearm recovered from the scene. But they did not say who they got it from. And it was not mentioned in the narrative of the shooting released by police. Until I hear it confirmed, I see no reason to believe Keltner was armed at the time he was shot. I've read many articles about this and none of them report that Keltner was armed. So if you have some specific information that proves he was armed, I'd appreciate a link to it. That kinda changes some things.

Firstly, I am speaking from the assumption that he had a firearm, which as reported was in a left-shoulder holster. Assuming that to be the case, it represented no threat of imminent use as long as Keltoff's right hand remained occupied with the can of pepper spray.

Secondly, I've seen zoomed-in shots of some of the photographs, that certainly appear to show the grips of a pistol in a shoulder-holstered mag (or perhaps just a mag holder? But either way, could reasonably be believed to be a firearm if visible).

 

[jamil]

Here's the slap.... no idea what happened in the preceding 5-7 seconds, though it doesn't really matter...



Here is immediately after the slap, Keitner has retreated a step, the pepper spray is not raised BUT Doloff is DRAWING his gun.



I've seen a cell phone video taken from behind and slightly right of Keitner... it stays on the original counter-protester then swings to Keitner/Doloff right after the slap... it and the HALO/surveillance will not help Doloff at all... not one bit... it appears to have a fairly clear frame of Keitner "startling" at Doloff's producing a gun and starting the pepper spray which appears to still be down by his side and shoots DOWN and to the right while Doloff has both hands on his gun, chest high, about to "push" out and shoot.

Pretty clear to me that Doloff drew his gun because of the slap... and had the gun out of the holster, in both hands, chest high while Keitner's non-lethal pepper spray was still down by his side and pointed down.

Really don't care who said what or who shoved who or ***** slapped who prior to this... appears legit straight up Murder 2... he killed a man for slapping him.

There are some other photos inbetween. Copied here for convenience.

 

[jamil]

Somewhere in the Above, Kut thinks shooting Keltner is justified.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Somewhere in the Above, Kut thinks shooting Keltner is justified.

I think Kut is...

 

[OakRiver]

[video=youtube;nvwkgWbfC-w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvwkgWbfC-w[/video]

 

[MCgrease08]

Looking through the photos jamil posted, several show what I would assume is a gun under the left side of his vest.

 

[Kutnupe14]

There are some other photos inbetween. Copied here for convenience.

First photo.... would you say he’s already committed to slapping Doloff?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Somewhere in the Above, Kut thinks shooting Keltner is justified.

A few more frames later, yep. Moral of the story, then don’t slap people and then try to PS them. That slap itself, I don’t see why it’s verboten to draw down on the assailant. The PS, an incapacitation agent, raises the ante. SB already committed to violence, should I allow him to hinder my ability further, with the “hopes” his violence will cease? Nope. I’m not that guy. I’ll leave my fate to a jury rather than some random guy on the street, who has already struck me.
I image if it was young kid doing the slapping, and PS-ing, opinions would be different, add a few more identifiers, and it becomes even more so.

 

[KG1]

Looking through the photos jamil posted, several show what I would assume is a gun under the left side of his vest.

That's what it appears to look like to me. But at no time in any of those photographs did it ever appear that Keltner went for his left side if indeed he was carrying a gun in a shoulder holster.. He always had the PS in his right hand at his side.

 

[KG1]

First photo.... would you say he’s already committed to slapping Doloff?

Would you say in the last photo that Keltner was committed to deploying PS prior to Doloff drawing?

 

[bobzilla]

Kut and I disagree on some things, but rarely have I ever seen him display such cognitive dissonance to push a narrative utterly at odds with available facts. It is unlike him.

Or, maybe I am just new here...

really? I’ve seen it so often it’s become the norm

 

[BugI02]

That's what it appears to look like to me. But at no time in any of those photographs did it ever appear that Keltner went for his left side if indeed he was carrying a gun in a shoulder holster.. He always had the PS in his right hand at his side.

Somehow I get the feeling that if Keltner had outdrawn Doltoff when he saw what was up and had stumped him, that Kut would be arguing that Keltner was guilty of murder

I think Keltner was lulled by normalcy bias, that even if Doltoff drew on him, in that situation he would not be shot considering their interaction up to that point

 

[actaeon277]

Every once in a while a parent will buy their kid a toy or candy from the checkout line to shut them up for 5 minutes...

Not my parents

 

[bobzilla]

I image if it was young kid doing the slapping, and PS-ing, opinions would be different, add a few more identifiers, and it becomes even more so.

And here’s the race card. All we need now is hitler and we will have the full set.

also the false narrative of “slap someone the. Try to pepper spray them is another flat out LIE. Again. Lies. Race card. What more could we ask for from our resident troll. I should have never take. The troll
off ignore. I’d hoped for better. Should have know.

 

[KG1]

Somehow I get the feeling that if Keltner had outdrawn Doltoff when he saw what was up and had stumped him, that Kut would be arguing that Keltner was guilty of murder

I think Keltner was lulled by normalcy bias, that even if Doltoff drew on him, in that situation he would not be shot considering their interaction up to that point

If Keltner had an inclination to deploy the PS prior to Doloff drawing he had ample opportunity to do so. If he was so intent on using it then why did'nt he do so as he was approached by Doloff instead of slapping him? In all of the photographic evidence the PS stayed in his right hand at his side never extending it with the intention to deploy UNTIL Doloff drew his firearm.

 

[MontereyC6]

 

[KLB]

A few more frames later, yep. Moral of the story, then don’t slap people and then try to PS them. That slap itself, I don’t see why it’s verboten to draw down on the assailant. The PS, an incapacitation agent, raises the ante. SB already committed to violence, should I allow him to hinder my ability further, with the “hopes” his violence will cease? Nope. I’m not that guy. I’ll leave my fate to a jury rather than some random guy on the street, who has already struck me.
I image if it was young kid doing the slapping, and PS-ing, opinions would be different, add a few more identifiers, and it becomes even more so.

It sounds like Colorado law is not on your side here.

Didn't he already claim he drew and fired because the victim was going for his gun? There certainly is no photographic evidence of that.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And here’s the race card. All we need now is hitler and we will have the full set.

also the false narrative of “slap someone the. Try to pepper spray them is another flat out LIE. Again. Lies. Race card. What more could we ask for from our resident troll. I should have never take. The troll
off ignore. I’d hoped for better. Should have know.

I must have hurt your feelings again. And obviously, Identifiers make a difference. No way, I would get away with all the insults that you throw my way. But hey I come from an unpopular group. I hope your mind reading ability doesn’t fail you again. Feel free to place me on ignore, yet again... we both know you'll be running back to "Papa Kut's" arms eventually.