Police Kill Man In Drug Raid Gone Wrong (VIDEO)

[ATM]

Hmm. Not good.

I am not anti-government, anti-police, or anti-authority.

+1

Well... except for the authority part.




I may have a small problem with authority.

 

[Love the 1911]

get married, morning wood becomes a thing of the past

I agree. Even your junk knows your days of getting any are over, morning or not

 

[E5RANGER375]

soooo true!

 

[BigMatt]

I think the main thing we should think about and take from this video is "What would I do if some men busted down my front door and yelled 'POLICE - SEARCH WARRANT"'

I'm not sure what I would do. As was posted before, criminals can use the same tactics to get the upper hand in a home invasion/confrontation.

So I will ask this question as sort of a mini thread-jack. What would you do in this situation?

 

[E5RANGER375]

I already said what I would do if I couldnt identify them 100%

kicking down doors isnt smart. one day the door they kick in is gonna have someone behind it that knows what they are doing. Im not advocating killing uniformed police, but I am questioning the the tactics. and also think its very reasonable for even the most law abiding citizen to shoot at unidentified people with guns in their house. you cant see police on uniforms when bright lights are in your face, and you cant hear "police" "search warrant" when your ear drums just got blown out by a flashbang. wake up to that **** and tell me you wouldnt grab your gun (or golf club)! then they would shoot you without you even pointing it at them. so even if they get the wrong house and kill an innocent person they dont even face jail time. thats wrong!!! why do they even have to worry about doing it right if they know they face no accountibility? Ive seen officers on here post about how they dont worry about civil trials because they know they will never be out of pocket on anything. thats wrong. If cops **** up its not my tax dollars that should have to pay for it!

 

[Love the 1911]

I haven't chimed in about this video yet. This is a tough one to watch. That guy did what most people would do-grab a weapon, and freeze. He was cowering in the corner like a scolded puppy and was shot dead. The shooting bothers me...a lot. The no-knock warrant does even more. While no-knocks may (?) be necessary in certain situations, I'm not convinced as a LEO that a drug raid is one of those. If there is no probable cause (hence-arrestable evidence) of someone being a dealer, then why should we knock the door in to try and find all the drug evidence that we know is in there. Unfortunately, going from knowing to proving is part of the game that we play. We should play fair at all times and that includes trying to get a drug dealer off the streets. A judge should require probable cause before allowing a door to be knocked in without any notice given. Get a search warrant and wait for the guy to leave and inform him then.

The only good use for a no-knock warrant is for violent felons and known resistors. Even then, it would be better tactically to find them out of their house and get them on a traffic stop where they don't have concealment and surprise like they do inside their own house.

 

[BigMatt]

That's good, I just want other people to think about it instead of only how this guy was murdered.

If I were to kill a cop, I would be afraid that there wouldn't be 12 of you on the jury and would attach some sort of "guilty until proven innocent" label to me.

I also don't have as much training as you, so do I think I could take what comes directly after me pulling the trigger on one of 5-7 armed men? I don't know.

 

[E5RANGER375]

That's good, I just want other people to think about it instead of only how this guy was murdered.

If I were to kill a cop, I would be afraid that there wouldn't be 12 of you on the jury and would attach some sort of "guilty until proven innocent" label to me.

I also don't have as much training as you, so do I think I could take what comes directly after me pulling the trigger on one of 5-7 armed men? I don't know.

dont feel bad. i dont care how much training one has, you arent gonna take out all of them before they get you, even if they have half as good of training. plus, in the middle of the night you arent gonna have on armor like they do. it only takes one bullet (sometimes) and you are done. and its all over in less than a couple seconds. best advice I could give people is to create natural barriers in your house with the way you place furnature. funnel an intruder through the way you want them to go. and entry team isnt gonna jump on furnature like tom cruise on oprah. they are gonna move around it. so all that gives you an advantage. also there are films you can buy (clear) that you can put over your windows to prevent them from being knocked out, long enough to give you time. also they make TONS of things for doors that will stop any human from knocking in your door absent a good silhouette charge . all you need is time to get ready (or identify who the **** is kicking in your door), and then game on or hands up!

 

[Love the 1911]

dont feel bad. i dont care how much training one has, you arent gonna take out all of them before they get you, even if they have half as good of training. plus, in the middle of the night you arent gonna have on armor like they do. it only takes one bullet (sometimes) and you are done. and its all over in less than a couple seconds. best advice I could give people is to create natural barriers in your house with the way you place furnature. funnel an intruder through the way you want them to go. and entry team isnt gonna jump on furnature like tom cruise on oprah. they are gonna move around it. so all that gives you an advantage. also there are films you can buy (clear) that you can put over your windows to prevent them from being knocked out, long enough to give you time. also they make TONS of things for doors that will stop any human from knocking in your door absent a good silhouette charge . all you need is time to get ready (or identify who the **** is kicking in your door), and then game on or hands up!

I never picked you as a Tom Cruise/Oprah guy.


-1,000

 

[BigMatt]

I don't feel bad, I'm just saying.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I never picked you as a Tom Cruise/Oprah guy.


-1,000

i heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend. thats my story and im sticking to it

 

[radonc73]

That was a great post E5, and sadly true that you must prepare yourself for anything more for criminals breaking in but still great.

 

[grizman]

Well clearly an officer HAS to shoot a person immediately if he sees a person in a home with something he thinks might possibly be sort of construed as a weapon.

The militarization of police and the tactics they use will I think ultimately force people to a breaking point.

To clarify it is the misapplication of military tactics and the lack of good sound threat assessment skills that is the problem. We were trained to take out only the viable threats if hostages were involved. It is possible with proper training and practice to be much cleaner than a lot of these SWAT guy's are.

 

[E5RANGER375]

To clarify it is the misapplication of military tactics and the lack of good sound threat assessment skills that is the problem. We were trained to take out only the viable threats if hostages were involved. It is possible with proper training and practice to be much cleaner than a lot of these SWAT guy's are.

for sure!!! how many cops will sit in the room while their team goes live around them?
i bet not too many. instant death

 

[dross]

After listening to the video again, I distinctly heard him yell, "Fore!"

No way they should have shot him.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

I think one of the biggest issues with no-knock warrants of this nature, is that the safety of officers and residents are risked for evidence preservation.

Generally, the no-knock is issued because it is feared that evidence would be destroyed if one was not, and not because SWAT is necessary.

This man was gunned down not only because of an overreaction to a golf club, but because law enforcement asked for a no-knock warrant fearing that evidence could be destroyed - and a judge signed it. Many of us have witnessed how little information is collected and used to request a warrant, and how little attention and thought some judges give to warrants before they sign them. Obviously, this is not a blanket statement that can apply to all LE or judges.

People's lives are not as important as collecting evidence.

 

[Bond 281]

To clarify it is the misapplication of military tactics and the lack of good sound threat assessment skills that is the problem. We were trained to take out only the viable threats if hostages were involved. It is possible with proper training and practice to be much cleaner than a lot of these SWAT guy's are.

No, I mean the militarization. The fact that police use military tactics at all is something I have serious issue with. It's a part of how they've turned from peace officers to becoming oppressors, and will continue to do so. Seems like they're mostly becoming the government's domestic military force that enforces their unjust laws.

 

[rambone]

Next time I am expected to provide my papers to a government official I am going to start running at them screaming aggressively.

That seems to be adequate enough for police to prove that they have a legal warrant to search a private residence, and prove that they are even police officers.

 

[jayhawk]

After listening to the video again, I distinctly heard him yell, "Fore!"

No way they should have shot him.

You DO NOT want to be playing house golf when the SWAT team shows up!!

 

[Kick]

That's an interesting opinion. Do you mind going into it a little deeper and explain why you think it was a justified shot?

All I saw on the video was the police outside for a moment, then multiple men loudly proclaiming something through a closed front door, then a few seconds pass and the home owner is lying dead on his floor. He didn't charge at the police from what I saw or make any threatening gestures with whatever was in his hand. All I'm saying is that this is a terrible way for police to conduct their business. First of all, they won't be able to suck any more money from him for a seatbelt violation and secondly, they flat-out killed another American for no apparent reason, other than he was in the sights.

I have a gun on my hip most of the time when I'm home. I don't want the police to think it is ever OK to just start blowing people away for no reason what so ever, and then ask questions or tell me to "Get down!" after the fact that I've already been flash banged, set on fire, had my head slammed against my wall, and then shot three times because they had the wrong house and I happened to be armed with something in my own home.

I'm still curious though, as to how you came to the conclusion that this was a justified kill. Maybe I'm missing some key parts to this story.

Sorry it took so long for me to read back through to this thread.

I weighed what I saw against the criterion needed for an officer to use deadly force, which is sadly not all that much. They did announce who they were (albeit not well) the subject did have a weapon (albeit not a conventional weapon) and if someone were struck in the head with that weapon, they could be in reasonable fear of death or grave bodily harm.

In addition to the above, police officer's are required to make announcements and / or give commands when feasible. I think the intention of this ruling was to give officers some leeway in a situation like:

Cop pulls up to a gas station and an armed robber has the clerk at gunpoint. There is a 50 / 50 chance that when the officer yells "Police Officer, Drop the Weapon!" the robber is just going to shoot the clerk. I understand not giving "verbals" in a situation like that. However, like anyone and anything else, if you give some people an inch.... they will take a mile.


To the best of my understanding, with all of those factors present, the shoot was "justified".

I am not saying I agree with the tactics, I am not saying it was a "good shoot".

However, I am saying that in a court of (criminal) law, where all of those factors were considered, I can understand why the officer was cleared of criminal charges. It would not surprise me if the family of the deceased filed a wrongful death suit against the officer and the agency and won.

It would also not surprise me if the seemingly increasing frequency of incidents like this one does not result in a revision of the police officer's use of force continuum.