Police Dog mauls bystander

[Bunnykid68]

bark bark probable cause bark bark bark

 

[ljadayton]

This is a North American Mindset...
The Polizei I have worked with in Germany don't have Dogs that are that amped up...
Neither, have the Italian, Spanish, Dutch, or the British...

Typical American microwave mentality. I WANT IT NOW, not when it's ready. The Germans, and I'm assuming other European countries are the same way perhaps, are much more demanding on what dogs get bred and who owns what type of dog. IMHO, German dogs are a benchmark that more American dogs could be held up to (in terms of training and breeding)

 

[Bunnykid68]

Good training can offset bad breed.

Good breed cannot offset bad training.

 

[ljadayton]

Good training can offset bad breed.

Good breed cannot offset bad training.

Exactly!! My dog has no papers. I don't even know what day she was born (she has a birthday I gave her, July 4th ) but she's MUCH better trained then a lot of expensive papered dogs I've seen. A dog's breed can influence the training process but training trumps breeding

 

[Bunnykid68]

My dog has papers too, have to throw them away every morning because her bladder is the size of a pea

 

[ljadayton]

My dog has papers too, have to throw them away every morning because her bladder is the size of a pea

You should get a real dog then

 

[Rayne]

This dog should not be put down, it was doing what it was trained to do. No I don't mean it was trained to attack an innocent woman, but it was working and the dog can't tell the difference between an innocent woman and a perp. It was the police officer's fault for not controlling the dog. Should the police officer be put down instead, since it's his fault?
The lady also shouldn't have come out of her house. She saw the police searching around her house and in the neighborhood. If the police needed anything they would have came to her door and asked for her help. Why in the world would this woman think the police needed her help?
The principle rule for home owner defense is that if you hear a noise outside, ready your gun and stay inside. Do not go outside to investigate. This should apply to everyone.

 

[rambone]

The police chief gave a statement that the incident was determined to be a "good bite." Eros' actions fell within the parameters of his training.

 

[Rayne]

The police chief gave a statement that the incident was determined to be a "good bite." Eros' actions fell within the parameters of his training.

Exactly, only you shouldn't have put it in purple.

 

[PatriotPride]

The lady also shouldn't have come out of her house. She saw the police searching around her house and in the neighborhood. If the police needed anything they would have came to her door and asked for her help. Why in the world would this woman think the police needed her help?
The principle rule for home owner defense is that if you hear a noise outside, ready your gun and stay inside. Do not go outside to investigate. This should apply to everyone.

I disagree. If I want to step outside my house and see what's happening, I will step outside my house. I may want to see what the police or others are doing on my property. In many cases, it IS, in fact, wiser to stay inside. I'm not disputing that. However, that's not up to you, it's up to the individual, and should one choose to step outside they should be responsible for any consequences of that choice.

 

[PatriotPride]

Exactly, only you shouldn't have put it in purple.

Wrong. The police officer did not retain control of the canine. He is at fault. It's unfortunate, it's an accident, but ultimately the officer is at fault. From what the article said, the woman stepped onto her porch. The police were searching for a firearm---they weren't involved in an active pursuit. She stepped onto her porch, HER PROPERTY, and the canine attacked.

WHY did the canine attack? From what the article said, she was simply talking on a phone, on her porch. I've never observed a canine trained to react to a person speaking on a cell phone.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The police officer did not retain control of the canine. He is at fault

Maybe, but remember there is a distinction between a crime and negligence.

The officer may have breached a duty of care and that would be negligence, not a crime.

Stepping out of her home may be considered by the civil jury as assumption of the risk, maybe.

The first is negligence, the second is an alleged crime.

 

[jeremy]

This dog should not be put down, it was doing what it was trained to do. No I don't mean it was trained to attack an innocent woman, but it was working and the dog can't tell the difference between an innocent woman and a perp. It was the police officer's fault for not controlling the dog. Should the police officer be put down instead, since it's his fault?

The Dog should be put down and the Officer should be Fired with Cause listed and possible criminal charges.

If the Dog would have belonged to a Civilian what would the Consequences been of the Dogs actions then?!

The lady also shouldn't have come out of her house. She saw the police searching around her house and in the neighborhood. If the police needed anything they would have came to her door and asked for her help. Why in the world would this woman think the police needed her help?
The principle rule for home owner defense is that if you hear a noise outside, ready your gun and stay inside. Do not go outside to investigate. This should apply to everyone.

Awwww....

So let me get this straight. It is perfectly OK for the LEOs to wander across my Property without letting anyone know they are there?!

Kinda reminds me of the If you have nothing to hide theory...

Your Principle Rule may sound solid for you.
However, I feel it is little off. I have a Large Yard with a LOT of Structures on it. Am I to just let a possible criminal wander around for 15-20 minutes before the first LEO arrives?!
It is MY Property, I will take the Responsibility to ensure MY Security...

 

[Rayne]

Wrong. The police officer did not retain control of the canine. He is at fault. It's unfortunate, it's an accident, but ultimately the officer is at fault. From what the article said, the woman stepped onto her porch. The police were searching for a firearm---they weren't involved in an active pursuit. She stepped onto her porch, HER PROPERTY, and the canine attacked.

WHY did the canine attack? From what the article said, she was simply talking on a phone, on her porch. I've never observed a canine trained to react to a person speaking on a cell phone.

Again the dog was working, actively searching. Do you honestly want me to believe that a dog will know the diffference between searching for a weapon and searching for a perp? This dog did not jump a fence and get loose by accident and viciously attack a woman sitting on her front porch. It was working and something the lady did cued it that the woman was a threat. What that was, no one may know. The office was negligent in his duty to retain control of the canine. The dog is only guilty of doing what he was trained to do. I'm not sure why everyone wants to kill this dog for this incident. Would you pass the death sentence on a LEO for an accidental discharge that struck another person only injuring them?

I'm not sure why some people on here have such a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to LEO's. Would you expect an LEO who is in a foot pursuit running through multiple backyards chasing a BG to stop an ask every homeowner if he may pass through their yard?

I looked at is as she knew something was going on in her yard, she could see the LEO's searching, what if the BG was hiding in the bushes in her front yard and when she stepped out her front door, he grabbed her and pushed her inside. Now we have a hostage situation, where if she had just stayed inside and let the Professionals handle the situation nothing would have happened.

 

[Rayne]

The Dog should be put down and the Officer should be Fired with Cause listed and possible criminal charges.

If the Dog would have belonged to a Civilian what would the Consequences been of the Dogs actions then?!


Awwww....

So let me get this straight. It is perfectly OK for the LEOs to wander across my Property without letting anyone know they are there?!

Kinda reminds me of the If you have nothing to hide theory...

Your Principle Rule may sound solid for you.
However, I feel it is little off. I have a Large Yard with a LOT of Structures on it. Am I to just let a possible criminal wander around for 15-20 minutes before the first LEO arrives?!
It is MY Property, I will take the Responsibility to ensure MY Security...

Well if you go outside investigating the problem, don't take your gun, or if you do, don't expect to use it and not be questioned heavily or prosecuted as to why you went looking for trouble.

 

[Rayne]

The police chief gave a statement that the incident was determined to be a "good bite." Eros' actions fell within the parameters of his training.

Where did you get that quote from??? It's not in the article that you have linked in you OP?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Rayne, it's sarcasm, my friend.

It's a boilerplate quote that police brass use when a shooting is controversial.

Just like this quote:

"Police Chief Wiggum further stated that brave Officer Eros made the best decision he could given the information at the time."

 

[Bunnykid68]

Going onto your own property is not looking for trouble.
I call it protecting my property.

 

[ljadayton]

Wrong. The police officer did not retain control of the canine. He is at fault. It's unfortunate, it's an accident, but ultimately the officer is at fault. From what the article said, the woman stepped onto her porch. The police were searching for a firearm---they weren't involved in an active pursuit. She stepped onto her porch, HER PROPERTY, and the canine attacked.

WHY did the canine attack? From what the article said, she was simply talking on a phone, on her porch. I've never observed a canine trained to react to a person speaking on a cell phone.

Exactly. The officer lost control of his dog. That dog has been trained to the point of possibly being considered a dangerous weapon.

Again the dog was working, actively searching. Do you honestly want me to believe that a dog will know the diffference between searching for a weapon and searching for a perp? This dog did not jump a fence and get loose by accident and viciously attack a woman sitting on her front porch. It was working and something the lady did cued it that the woman was a threat. What that was, no one may know. The office was negligent in his duty to retain control of the canine. The dog is only guilty of doing what he was trained to do. I'm not sure why everyone wants to kill this dog for this incident. Would you pass the death sentence on a LEO for an accidental discharge that struck another person only injuring them?

The point is that the dog shouldn't attack anyone without just cause. Standing on her porch on the phone is not an attackable offense. Watch some good video's of Schutzhund dogs doing perp work. They should be controllable and be released to "attack"

If the Dog would have belonged to a Civilian what would the Consequences been of the Dogs actions then?!

It is MY Property, I will take the Responsibility to ensure MY Security...

Right. IF that was MY dog, she'd get a one way ticket to being put to sleep and I would face at least civil court and fines. Because I am responsible for what MY dog does. She is not. Because she's a dog.

And right again. MY property, MY family. Is it a good idea to step out on the porch when you know LEO's are in the area? Maybe, maybe not. Apparently it seemed like a good idea to the victim at the time. And that's up to each individual to make. Me personally, unless I've seen or heard something that leads me to believe it's unsafe, I'd probably be out there watching. But I'd be armed and my son would be inside watching from a window.

 

[Rayne]

The point is that the dog shouldn't attack anyone without just cause. Standing on her porch on the phone is not an attackable offense. Watch some good video's of Schutzhund dogs doing perp work. They should be controllable and be released to "attack"

Right. IF that was MY dog, she'd get a one way ticket to being put to sleep and I would face at least civil court and fines. Because I am responsible for what MY dog does. She is not. Because she's a dog.

I don't think you guys are getting the point. It is a dog that has been trained, it can't tell you what cue the lady made to make it attack. You all are assuming it attacked for no reason. Dogs don't attack for no reason. This was a highly trained dog similar to the Schutzhund dogs. I've seen them trained in person, I know how it works.

Yes if your dog or my dog were to do the same thing, we would be in big trouble as I think this officer will be.