Plain-clothed cop pulls gun on speeding motorcyclist [VIDEO]

[Joe Williams]

right hand on gun, left hand holding up badge would have made MUCH more sense to me
snip

Sounds pretty, but you'd look silly laying on the ground like that bleeding to death if the guy on the bike had turned out to be a real bad guy. And as the cop, you are already at a disadvantage if the guy you are stopping decides to shoot you... even if you have the gun in your hand.

PM sent to further explain.

 

[JBusch8899]

I actually think that police officers should go to jail for pulling a gun on an unarmed person.

If any of us did that, you'd take us to jail, but somehow, police are allowed to use a gun as a negotiation tool while we'd go to jail, probably for a felony, for the same thing.

Trying to use a gun as a negotiation tool can never go well anyway. What are you going to do if he tries to ride away? Shoot him? I highly doubt it.

It is bad tactics to have a gun in your hand unless you're going to be able to use it. I'd love to see some statistics on how many of these so-called "felony stops" result in bad things happening to police officers.

I guess they never taught you that the safest place for your gun is in your holster, that you're taking a risk every single time you draw it, and combined with the fact that most dead cops were shot with their own gun, to think wisely before drawing down.

But then again, I don't see this changing anytime soon, and it's not like I have much sympathy to someone who runs from the cops. But drawing a gun on someone when you have no intention of ever pulling the trigger intentionally sounds like the beginnings of a bad shoot every time it happens.

Then again, it's pretty rare to see them rule something a "bad shoot" even when the evidence is overwhelming that it is.

I imagine that not knowing the character or intent of the violator/potential perpetrator, given the totality of the circumstances, was the defining motivation for the LEO to preemptively pull his weapon in anticipation to protecting himself.

I've already done similar in my very home, and I suspect many on this board has as well. What would anyone else do when awakened by the doorbell at 3am?

 

[Boilers]

Again, we have all the parts now to where an automatically traffic law complying car can be manufactured. It would be so nice to be INCAPABLE of exceeding the speed limit, or swerving into lanes, etc.

I fear it will never happen, just because of the loss of revenue, and power trips.

 

[JBusch8899]

Again, we have all the parts now to where an automatically traffic law complying car can be manufactured. It would be so nice to be INCAPABLE of exceeding the speed limit, or swerving into lanes, etc.

I fear it will never happen, just because of the loss of revenue, and power trips.

Not to mention the fact that there are any number of mitigating circumstances to exceeding the speed limit, or swerving into lanes, etc.

 

[Joe Williams]

I'm truly surprised at all the ire directed at an officer who merely had his gun at the ready, never even aimed it, and almost no one seems to be upset about the law that really got this guy in trouble.

I cannot comprehend how it is legal for the government to make it illegal to protect oneself from government agents via video. That's what actually has me kind of torqued. Cops on duty have no expectation of privacy or non-interception, they are acting in the public light. Cops who behave properly, as these guys actually did, should welcome video, and even if they don't it shouldn't matter.

 

[Denny347]

Why didn't the cop just use the pitman maneuver and flip the cyclist into the ditch?

If it was a bike jacking, I would have waited for the guy to try and get on the bike, then shoot him. Probably would have to clean it though. Either way the cop shouldn't have drawn first.

I am PIT certified and have used it to stop a pursuit. Performing that on a motorcycle IS deadly force. The likelihood of death is too high. Same with PITing a vehicle traveling over 80mph.

 

[Denny347]

I'm truly surprised at all the ire directed at an officer who merely had his gun at the ready, never even aimed it, and almost no one seems to be upset about the law that really got this guy in trouble.

I cannot comprehend how it is legal for the government to make it illegal to protect oneself from government agents via video. That's what actually has me kind of torqued. Cops on duty have no expectation of privacy or non-interception, they are acting in the public light. Cops who behave properly, as these guys actually did, should welcome video, and even if they don't it shouldn't matter.

I will second that opinion. Making it illegal to film an officer IN PUBLIC is absurd. Thankfully in Indiana, voice/video laws are in the public's favor.

 

[IndySSD]

I'm truly surprised at all the ire directed at an officer who merely had his gun at the ready, never even aimed it, and almost no one seems to be upset about the law that really got this guy in trouble.

Well, I can't say that I'm surprised by the reaction here but I also would be one that would say the unidentifiable officer definitely toed across the line between good decision and poor decision. Do I think he was way out of line? Probably not, I could envision several scenarios where this is an appropriate response... the video we see here just doesn't seem to be one of them.

I cannot comprehend how it is legal for the government to make it illegal to protect oneself from government agents via video. That's what actually has me kind of torqued. Cops on duty have no expectation of privacy or non-interception, they are acting in the public light. Cops who behave properly, as these guys actually did, should welcome video, and even if they don't it shouldn't matter.

I agree with this myself(Meaning I can't believe that the govt. can force you to stop recording in a public place). Funny this should come up as I was just speaking today with a LEO who is looking to purchase a quality voice recorder that is large enough in capacity for him to continuously log his entire shift and catalog on his pc by date because the area he works in has had more and more recent bogus "allegations of police saying XYZ" when they haven't. (Racial remarks, threatening people, etc...)

While he has not yet been the target of allegations along these lines, he's been on scene as backup where someone tried to come back later and accuse the arresting officer of threatening them and racial slurs (which can lead to a swift dismissal these days apparently, whether you actually did them or not).

So... when the LEO feel like they need to protect themselves via voice and video recordings.... that's also not good in my opinion.

 

[Denny347]

right hand on gun, left hand holding up badge would have made MUCH more sense to me


I see a guy with a gun coming out of a regular car, my reaction is completely different.


I am glad he at least came out of the car saying "State Police"

With no audio, we are unclear WHAT was said. However, it will say that a badge around the neck would go a lot further in identification if it goes to court. I keep a badge on a neck chain in my car for that very reason while I'm off-duty.

 

[shawkpilot]

Noone knew he was a cop when he came out brandishing his weapon. That's my problem. If I were to walk around pulling out my gun everytime I had an interaction with someone, you can bet I would be in trouble.

As for videoing LE, or anyone else, get rid of the traffic light cams. and we'll talk. I believe that if you are going to catch me doing something, you need to be in uniform and a marked car. I get stopped because my bike is "arrest me red". To me, that's profiling, and we all know how wrong that is, ask TSA.

 

[shawkpilot]

I am PIT certified and have used it to stop a pursuit. Performing that on a motorcycle IS deadly force. The likelihood of death is too high. Same with PITing a vehicle traveling over 80mph.

That's my point. Drawing a weapon is intent to use deadly force. He's lucky the situation did not result in one of them dead.

 

[JBusch8899]

That's my point. Drawing a weapon is intent to use deadly force. He's lucky the situation did not result in one of them dead.

Merely drawing one's weapon is not intent of the utilization of deadly force. If the LEO intention was to do such, then the MC operator would have been shot.

Refer to my previous post of being awakened at 3am.

 

[Denny347]

That's my point. Drawing a weapon is intent to use deadly force. He's lucky the situation did not result in one of them dead.

But merely drawing a pistol is NOT force. Firing the pistol IS use of force. Pulling my Taser/baton/OC but not using them is not force. Actually using them falls under "use of force". I have to apply the force for it to be "used". The law is on our side on this.

 

[JBusch8899]

I'm truly surprised at all the ire directed at an officer who merely had his gun at the ready, never even aimed it, and almost no one seems to be upset about the law that really got this guy in trouble.

That is because cops don't have a right to protect themselves. I'm truly surprised that there aren't more here on INGO, with their combined combat experience and law school education; that haven't been in a police shootout, and/or tried and found not guilty for shooting cops, when such cops clearly deserved such.

 

[thompal]

I'm still looking for the original video link...hate getting old. As for the drawn gun. What if this was a "traditional" felony stop where we are behind the doors of our vehicle with our guns drawn, and on the PA directing the occupants out of the car. We do those all the time. Now if the car drives off suddenly do we shoot since we have our guns already out? NO. We have our guns drawn to give us a sliver of a chance if the SHTF.

"Occupants of the CAR. . . ."

Where the occupant(s) may have a pistol in their lap or hand, and their entire body is hidden while in the car, so the officers have no clue what the driver has in his hand at the time the driver opens the door to exit.

However, this guy is on a bike, with gloves on. His entire body is visible at all times.

I see your point, I just think that in this case, for the officer to have his pistol drawn while he is exiting his car is over-reacting. I would also think that the first thing a plainclothes officer would do would be yell "POLICE," no matter if he has already drawn or not.

Yeah, the biker earned a ticket, and the fact that he was pulled over isn't an issue. My only issue with the stop is with the officer not identifying himself before he draws a handgun.

HOWEVER, the fact that he is apparently charged with filming a public servant in a public place is a lot more alarming to me.

 

[shawkpilot]

But merely drawing a pistol is NOT force. Firing the pistol IS use of force. Pulling my Taser/baton/OC but not using them is not force. Actually using them falls under "use of force". I have to apply the force for it to be "used". The law is on our side on this.

I said it was INTENT of using force. I cannot imagine drawing a pistol if I had no intention of using it. Even if I wasn't going to actually shoot it, I could be charged with intimidation with a weapon. Point is still, he was WAY out of line to draw first.

 

[MinuteMan47]

I will second that opinion. Making it illegal to film an officer IN PUBLIC is absurd. Thankfully in Indiana, voice/video laws are in the public's favor.

Question...it may have been already covered (or I could be suffering from HEAT exhaustion and unable to think properly right now...)

*It seems again that there is a double standard for Law Enforcement. How is it illegal for this guy to video tape a LEO, but it is OK for LEOs to video tape their suspects...(assuming that they also have dash cams)????????
The camera on his helmet would be no different from a police officer's dash cam...NO???

 

[sj kahr k40]

Question...it may have been already covered (or I could be suffering from HEAT exhaustion and unable to think properly right now...)

*It seems again that there is a double standard for Law Enforcement. How is it illegal for this guy to video tape a LEO, but it is OK for LEOs to video tape their suspects...(assuming that they also have dash cams)????????
The camera on his helmet would be no different from a police officer's dash cam...NO???

It is a double standard, but as of right now filming a LEO without his permission is illegal in Maryland, absurd IMO and hopefully this case will be the reason that law is changed.

 

[yotewacker]

The cop needs to go back to basic cop stop training 101. LOL

 

[Vasili]

But merely drawing a pistol is NOT force. Firing the pistol IS use of force. Pulling my Taser/baton/OC but not using them is not force. Actually using them falls under "use of force". I have to apply the force for it to be "used". The law is on our side on this.

But it is a demonstration of force.
When does a demonstration become invocation?

Pulling the trigger? That makes it a bit too late to dispute it, doesn't it. I'd rather be a little bit early in an assumption than dead, courts be damned.