Pistol Packing Judge

[Eddie]

No, he kills her just outside the courthouse, like in Texas.



Sure do, especially if police property. Look how many guns the cops lose, especially in courthouse bathrooms.

One of the uniformed bailiffs here showed me how to walk a gun through a metal detector (on his Sam Browne no less). It's a good parlor trick and good to see demonstrated so people understand that security does not come from Security.

Kirk,

I'm sure you've been in the Fountain and Warren County Courthouses. how hard is it to sneak a gun through the security there? (For others, I am being facetious, there is no metal detector, no armed security on a regular basis.) Ever make somebody really mad in the courthouse?

 

[jsharmon7]

The turn this thread has taken reminds me of the movie "A Time to Kill." A courtroom is a place where emotions run VERY high, so I'm not opposed to not allowing weapons in there. The judge however is impartial to the case at hand and I don't really worry about him as much. To me it has nothing to do with rights and social class and education and whatever else people have mentioned.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm sure you've been in the Fountain and Warren County Courthouses. how hard is it to sneak a gun through the security there?

Well, in Covington, if I step on the sleeping bailiff, oh, wait, there's not even that in Covington.

Yes, both Fountain and Warren are wide open but very peaceful.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

For INGO youngsters who do not know about the shootings at courthouses, here's what happened in Texas:

Tyler courthouse shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Courthouse bans are worse than feckless as they:

1. move any potential attack beyond the security perimeter, or drop the guard of the targets in the courthouse after the attacker grabs a gun from a cop, or produces a contraband weapon which he sneaks in after studying how to defeat metal detectors.

2. ensure that the targets, as in Smith County, are unarmed and unable to fight back thus increasing the incentive for the attack.

 

[dross]

The turn this thread has taken reminds me of the movie "A Time to Kill." A courtroom is a place where emotions run VERY high, so I'm not opposed to not allowing weapons in there. The judge however is impartial to the case at hand and I don't really worry about him as much. To me it has nothing to do with rights and social class and education and whatever else people have mentioned.

Houses are another place where emotions run VERY high.

It reminds me of...pretty much every movie ever made.

 

[Eddie]

For INGO youngsters who do not know about the shootings at courthouses, here's what happened in Texas:

Tyler courthouse shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Courthouse bans are worse than feckless as they:

1. move any potential attack beyond the security perimeter, or drop the guard of the targets in the courthouse after the attacker grabs a gun from a cop, or produces a contraband weapon which he sneaks in after studying how to defeat metal detectors.

2. ensure that the targets, as in Smith County, are unarmed and unable to fight back thus increasing the incentive for the attack.

This one bugs me more because the court security failed and the bad guy used their weapons to arm himself.

Brian Nichols - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[spartan933]

It's smart. Judges are the recipients of a plethora of threats. Almost as bad as cops. More than a few instances exist where judges have been assaulted or killed, or their family members.

And, generally, State Court judges don't have bodyguards/security with them 24/7 like Federal Judges do.

 

[Joe Williams]

Please explain how I am anti-American, anti-gun and un-Constitutional. I don't advocate anything of that nature. Out of all of my faults, being un-American or un-Constitutional is defintely not one of them. I signed my name on the line 20 years ago and wrote a blank check to Uncle Sam to protect your sorry butt and defend your freedom, which I did for 20 some odd years. Just becasue I am not for allowing firearms in a courtroom, don't you dare lump me in as a liberal, anti-American anti-gunner. Don't trust me. I don't care. I will still priotect you when you need it and can't do it for yourself.

I wrote the same check, so blow THAT smoke at someone else. You advocate disarming Americans, while somehow feeling you are special enough to carry guns in the same situation. So, yes, you are no different than Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, and similar types, who all tell us we are better off without guns, while packing themselves. Thanks, but no thanks, to your brand of America. Nor do I desire your protection, which wouldn't be needed had you and your buddies not disarmed us and rendered us helpless.

 

[Dukshead]

I wrote the same check, so blow THAT smoke at someone else. You advocate disarming Americans, while somehow feeling you are special enough to carry guns in the same situation. So, yes, you are no different than Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, and similar types, who all tell us we are better off without guns, while packing themselves. Thanks, but no thanks, to your brand of America. Nor do I desire your protection, which wouldn't be needed had you and your buddies not disarmed us and rendered us helpless.

Funny I just don't ever remember advocating for disarming Americans. Simply stated that IMO people that don't work in a courtroom should not be allowed to have a firearm in said courtroom. Thanks for jacking the thread when all I was looking for were a few opinions about Judges carrying. Got a good laugh out of your last 2 posts but I'll take the high road and don't worry, I'll still have your back when the time comes.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Sorry. Guess I just disagree. With all of the security we have here (metal detectors, officers at every door etc) no way the ex gets in with a firearm.

You can't be serious. I mean it.
As an example of just how well those metal detectors/officers/whatever work. I had to go into a courthouse, metal detectors, x-ray machine for bags, 3-4 officers standing there all the bells and whistles. The metal detector goes off when I walk through, the officer ask if I have any weapons or metal in my pockets, I tell them no but I have on steel toed boots. He looks down and say "oh okay" and waves me through.

Or look just how much contraband shows up in prisons, including firearms. It doesn't get much more secure than that does it?

Or for a few more examples, check out this thread.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...t_made_it_through_airport_security_today.html

One of the uniformed bailiffs here showed me how to walk a gun through a metal detector (on his Sam Browne no less). It's a good parlor trick and good to see demonstrated so people understand that security does not come from Security.

I'd like to see that.

Funny I just don't ever remember advocating for disarming Americans. Simply stated that IMO people that don't work in a courtroom should not be allowed to have a firearm in said courtroom.

You don't see it? Maybe you were talking about non Americans that visit your courtroom?

 

[public servant]

Houses are another place where emotions run VERY high.

If banning firearms were a prerequisite for high emotions...we'd have to ban firearms from INGO.

High emotions in a court room?

YouTube - You're Out of Order

YouTube - Classic Movie Line #15

 

[Dukshead]

You can't be serious. I mean it.
As an example of just how well those metal detectors/officers/whatever work. I had to go into a courthouse, metal detectors, x-ray machine for bags, 3-4 officers standing there all the bells and whistles. The metal detector goes off when I walk through, the officer ask if I have any weapons or metal in my pockets, I tell them no but I have on steel toed boots. He looks down and say "oh okay" and waves me through.

Or look just how much contraband shows up in prisons, including firearms. It doesn't get much more secure than that does it?

Or for a few more examples, check out this thread.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...t_made_it_through_airport_security_today.html



I'd like to see that.


You don't see it? Maybe you were talking about non Americans that visit your courtroom?

Let's just say it hasn't happened YET. I know all courthouses are not the same as far as security goes, but we haven't had a firearm incident ever in this court. Same goes for security. Some guys take their positions a little more serious than others. It's that way everywhere right? There are always exceptions to the rule and any of you can spin doctor my words all you want. I am not for disarming Americans. Some rules are made to followed while others should be bent a little and yet others need to be axed all together. Just remember, if you ever come to this court for whatever reason, leave your weapon in the trunk.

 

[Archaic_Entity]

Funny I just don't ever remember advocating for disarming Americans. Simply stated that IMO people that don't work in a courtroom should not be allowed to have a firearm in said courtroom. Thanks for jacking the thread when all I was looking for were a few opinions about Judges carrying. Got a good laugh out of your last 2 posts but I'll take the high road and don't worry, I'll still have your back when the time comes.

While I typically don't feel inclined to argue (okay, maybe I do, I dunno) let me break this down for you.

Now, I understand you've put your life on the dotted line for Uncle Sam, and, therefore, ultimately me. And for 20 years of service, I salute you. However, what you're currently advocating is nothing short of disarming citizens.

Joe has pointed this out. But, to clarify, we need to go back to when the BoR was written. That 2nd Amendment we all preach about was specifically about the right to bear arms. Not outside of courtrooms, and not outside of courthouses. But to simply bear arms. Citizens of the United States are allowed to bear arms. That's the simple statement of it, and the statement that you swore to protect. You swore to uphold the Constitution, and everything contained within. This includes the BoR, and the 2nd Amendment. I'm sure you don't disagree with that.

I'm not calling you anti-American, nor am I calling you anti-2nd Amendment, nor anti-gun. But you are calling for the disarmament of American citizens every time you say they need to enter an American courtroom without arms. If they are legal, law-abiding citizens of the USA then they are afforded certain, unalienable rights. The rights proscribed to them, and protected, by the BoR. That includes the right to bear arms. Why is that right disallowed by courtrooms while the 5th Amendment is advocated in courtrooms? What makes the 5th Amendment so superior to the 2nd Amendment that it is allowed while the 2nd is not?
The answer is, "Nothing." It is nothing more than a power-grabbing technique utilized to ensure that those who have "authority" (granted to them by those truly in authority--us) to ensure their "authority" is maintained. To disarm any legal American is to disobey the Constitution on a fundamental level. The second anyone decides that a single Amendment is better than the other they exercise a belief that there is an inherent flaw in the "lesser" Amendment, and that is a problem. All Amendments are equal within the bearing of the law, and all hold equal weight. Therefore, as much as the 5th is held in reverence in the court of law, the 2nd needs to be held equally reverent.

I understand that what you have seen may dissuade you from this point of view, but it isn't a matter of what you have seen, but a matter of fundamental law. The 2nd Amendment is as fundamental a right as any other right. Even more so than many "rights" we take for granted since it's been there from the beginning of the current American government.

I just want you to ponder that. Why do you ensure that law-abiding citizens are disarmed? What makes their right to bear arms lesser than their right to not incriminate themselves? What makes their right to bear arms lesser than their right to defend themselves in the court of law? What makes their right to bear arms lesser than the idea that they are innocent until proven guilty?
What makes their right to bear arms lesser than their necessity to go to court for the innumerable reasons that aren't criminal? Is it a matter of law? Or is it a matter of personal comfort? Consider it carefully, because it's important. Are you comfortable around those who have proven they are law-abiding? Or are you only comfortable around yourself and others who have "proven" to the government they can be "trusted" with a firearm?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Let's just say it hasn't happened YET. I know all courthouses are not the same as far as security goes, but we haven't had a firearm incident ever in this court. Same goes for security. Some guys take their positions a little more serious than others. It's that way everywhere right? There are always exceptions to the rule and any of you can spin doctor my words all you want. I am not for disarming Americans. Some rules are made to followed while others should be bent a little and yet others need to be axed all together. Just remember, if you ever come to this court for whatever reason, leave your weapon in the trunk.

I'll believe you that you haven't had a firearm incident yet. I won't believe you if you are saying that no one that isn't supposed to have a firearm there hasn't brought one in.

Does everyone go through your security? And I mean everyone, all employees, outside contractors, attorneys? I think this happened down in Indy last year, a attorney brought in an unloaded and I think deactivated handgun for use in a case, he had done so before but forgot to ask this time. It wasn't found until he tried to enter it in the courtroom as evidence that they found out about it. I heard from an attorney who told me he had an OH moment after he was inside the courthouse. He forgot he had a handgun in his briefcase, went in and went to go over some paperwork before court started. He opened his briefcase and . He made a quick trip out to his car before court started. I know an outside contractor who did pretty much the same thing. But since they were working there they went in the back door (literally) and didn't have to go through security.

A courthouse I know employees bypass security, they show their badge (employee not LEO) and they walk around.

And I'll agree with you that some rules should be axed altogether, including ones that ban citizens from carrying.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'd like to see that.

It's pretty cool. The trick is just to walk super slow through the metal detector with your gun belt on. I think the bailiff watching you would figure out what is up.

Also if you shuffle your feet (metal lined shoes) or if you take a metal object (my watch) and hold it against your heart, the detector will usually not pick it up.

Lots of ways to beat metal detectors. TSA just loves me when I fly.

 

[Dukshead]

I'll believe you that you haven't had a firearm incident yet. I won't believe you if you are saying that no one that isn't supposed to have a firearm there hasn't brought one in.

Does everyone go through your security? And I mean everyone, all employees, outside contractors, attorneys? I think this happened down in Indy last year, a attorney brought in an unloaded and I think deactivated handgun for use in a case, he had done so before but forgot to ask this time. It wasn't found until he tried to enter it in the courtroom as evidence that they found out about it. I heard from an attorney who told me he had an OH moment after he was inside the courthouse. He forgot he had a handgun in his briefcase, went in and went to go over some paperwork before court started. He opened his briefcase and . He made a quick trip out to his car before court started. I know an outside contractor who did pretty much the same thing. But since they were working there they went in the back door (literally) and didn't have to go through security.

A courthouse I know employees bypass security, they show their badge (employee not LEO) and they walk around.

And I'll agree with you that some rules should be axed altogether, including ones that ban citizens from carrying.

AE, thanks for the clarification and the lesson. I guess I need to just choose my words a little more carefully and I will ponder it. We've heard the saying "walk mile in my shoes" right? I am well aware of the 2nd A and the BoR and believe me I love them. I just feel like there are some places we don't NEED to carry and I do carry 85-90% of the time.

TJBB - not sure if there has ever been a firearm brought in that wasn't supposed to be here. I would guess that there has, but the person wasn't caught. I know all the tricks of getting thru a MD or being wanded down. Anyone with half a brain could eventually figure it out and no, not all employeees come thru the front door. It is easy for an employee or contractor to sneak one in. Those people are supposed to be 'trusted' to come in, do their thing and leave right? Not saying one of them wouldn't do anything crazy but the people I would be most worried about are family members, friends and defendants before, during and after court. Tensions are high during these times and I don't even work in a Felony court. I guess this might just be one of those "you have to be in this situation" kind of things. Thanks for all the responses.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Yeah, yeah, I think we're all down with "time, manner, place" restrictions for either the First or the Second. (e.g. I cannot shoot cans downtown Lafayette, I cannot launch into a political diatribe against the judge while a hearing is in session, inter alia).

However, there has to be a rational basis for these and "no guns in courthouses" does not a rational basis.

 

[sj kahr k40]

I know for a fact that someone that doesn't work in the court has carried inside several courtrooms at the City County building, it's real easy if you enter with a person that bypasses security, it's been done at least once this month.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

AE, thanks for the clarification and the lesson. I guess I need to just choose my words a little more carefully and I will ponder it. We've heard the saying "walk mile in my shoes" right? I am well aware of the 2nd A and the BoR and believe me I love them. I just feel like there are some places we don't NEED to carry and I do carry 85-90% of the time.

TJBB - not sure if there has ever been a firearm brought in that wasn't supposed to be here. I would guess that there has, but the person wasn't caught. I know all the tricks of getting thru a MD or being wanded down. Anyone with half a brain could eventually figure it out and no, not all employeees come thru the front door. It is easy for an employee or contractor to sneak one in. Those people are supposed to be 'trusted' to come in, do their thing and leave right? Not saying one of them wouldn't do anything crazy but the people I would be most worried about are family members, friends and defendants before, during and after court. Tensions are high during these times and I don't even work in a Felony court. I guess this might just be one of those "you have to be in this situation" kind of things. Thanks for all the responses.

I know the walk a mile in their shoes saying. And I wholeheartedly agree with it, your a mile away and you have their shoes. What are they going to do?

And yes most of the people that work there are 'trusted' but I've known a few of them I wouldn't trust. For instance I know a guy that worked at a courthouse, he was maintenance for their HVAC system. He got the job through a relative that was connected there. He is a drug addict with a long criminal history. He's been locked up for the last 2 or so years for what I'm not sure.

It's pretty cool. The trick is just to walk super slow through the metal detector with your gun belt on. I think the bailiff watching you would figure out what is up.

Also if you shuffle your feet (metal lined shoes) or if you take a metal object (my watch) and hold it against your heart, the detector will usually not pick it up.

Lots of ways to beat metal detectors. TSA just loves me when I fly.

Thanks for the info. Although I knew about the shuffling feet. I've heard it works well with an ankle holster also.

I know for a fact that someone that doesn't work in the court has carried inside several courtrooms at the City County building, it's real easy if you enter with a person that bypasses security, it's been done at least once this month.

I forgot that one. I did that once by accident, although I wasn't carrying. Walking in and was talking to my lawyer and I just went with him.

I also one time got in line to go through security, and had a officer mistake me for a lawyer and told me I could go around. But I guess it was an understandable mistake. I was well groomed, wearing a nice suit and tie and had a leather attache with me. And I'm sure it didn't hurt that it was hot and dry so my skin was a little scaly. Sorry Kirk I had to.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I just feel like there are some places we don't NEED to carry and I do carry 85-90% of the time.

For myself there are times/places I don't feel the need to carry. But I like having the option to do so. ETA And I don't think others that don't feel the same way should be banned from it. I haven't needed to carry a firearm yet, and I hope to keep it that way. But I like to be prepared just in case I do need to. And I carry the vast majority of the time where I legally can.

And I'm not bashing you but I have a question. Do you feel the need to carry in the courtroom/house? If so why shouldn't other citizens feel the same way and perhaps for the same reason. I'm asking you to do the same as you asked us. Walk a mile in our shoes. Although please come back with them, I like mine and they are broken in for my feet.