Parking Lot Bill Senate Bill 25

[Roadie]

This issue is just like any gun control issue. Gun laws don't affect the criminal, only the law abiding citizen. Finally we get a chance to the "good guy" to get some rights back, and we have gun owners that are against it?? Really??

 

[jdhaines]

I'm in the same situation as others in the thread. The fact that my company has a no guns on property rule, I have to be disarmed going to and from work. If I want to stop somewhere after work, I either have to go unarmed, or go home first. It's a huge hassle. I'm on the side that my truck should be my property. I get other people's points. This is one of the few issues where both sides have logical arguments...doesn't happen too often.

If I didn't value my job, or thought I could switch to somewhere else quickly I would probably break the rules...at this point that isn't a possibility.

 

[cce1302]

I said something about watching Along came Polly.

I haven't? Should I?

No, I was merely responding to the previous poster's unnatural fear of liability for things he could not possibly have control over, i.e. people committing crimes on his property. It reminded me of Ben Stiller's character who calculated risk for an insurance firm. He lived his life based on not taking the slightest risks, such as eating peanuts at a bar, etc.

You can "what if" this forever. he brought up the hot coffee lawsuit. Yeah, sometimes ridiculous things happen. Do you think that a single line in an employee handbook is going to prevent frivolous lawsuits or help you beat them? for every measure you take, a lawyer can think of one you didn't take. "no guns on company property" in the employee handbook? check. Random vehicle searches? check. well you missed one vehicle one day: lawsuit-you should have checked every vehicle. Armed security? check. metal detector-no, forgot to do that: lawsuit-because you didn't have a metal detector, someon snuck a gun inside the building.

 

[Lars]

Joe, you and I don't always see eye to eye. But this idea I've had before and agree with completely.

The HR department said, in response to the Pizza Hut delivery guy shooting someone in self defence on a delivery, that Pizza Hut doesn't want to get sued for "Sending an employee to their house with a gun."

I asked her if the Employee's family can sue Pizza Hut for dissarming their family member, sending him to someone house to be killed.

She didn't want to get into it.

How about pressing for a bill that allows companies to ban guns in the workplace and employees cars. But also holds them EXPLICITLY responsible for their decision to render employees defenseless if they do so. Protects the employer's ability to exercise control over their employee's private property, and makes them pay for their negligence in disarming and rendering defenseless said employee if they do so and an employee is injured in a criminal act at work, on the way to work, or on the way home from work.

 

[level.eleven]

Employers certainly have the right to prevent whatever they want in their workplaces. But they don't have the right to curtail my 2nd amendment rights during the 20 minute drive to or from work.

Your employer isn't violating your rights during that 20 minute drive. They are not denying you from purchasing firearms, ammunition, issuing licenses and, most importantly, passing laws. They aren't infringing on a single right of yours until you step foot on their property. To say they are violating your rights would also infer that they have some authority over you while not at work/on the clock or during your travel between home or work.

Just a thought.

 

[dburkhead]

Your employer isn't violating your rights during that 20 minute drive. They are not denying you from purchasing firearms, ammunition, issuing licenses and, most importantly, passing laws. They aren't infringing on a single right of yours until you step foot on their property. To say they are violating your rights would also infer that they have some authority over you while not at work/on the clock or during your travel between home or work.

Just a thought.

So does my gun magically vanish when I cross the threshold of their property and reappear when I leave?

I have a 25 minute drive to work not including the time spent dropping my daughter off at daycare and picking her up in the evening. Sometimes I have to make stops on the way. Barring any magical "make the gun vanish and reappear" capabilities, how exactly am I to exercise my RKBA during that approximately 3% of my lifetime?

And who do I, or my heirs, sue if I follow a no-guns company policy and get robbed on the way to or from work?

 

[ATM]

They aren't infringing on a single right of yours until you step foot on their property.

By the time I step foot on their property, I'd already be disarmed because my gun would stay locked inside the car.

I just don't think they should be able to regulate the contents of my vehicle simply because my tires touch their pavement.

 

[Joe Williams]

By the time I step foot on their property, I'd already be disarmed because my gun would stay locked inside the car.

I just don't think they should be able to regulate the contents of my vehicle simply because my tires touch their pavement.

JOC... how long would your employer be able to stay open if they eliminated employee parking?

 

[drillsgt]

The "why" is simply that doing it that way will get more votes than doing it the other way.

The reason to support it now is because it keeps the momentum going on giving people back their RKBA. Once it's in place it becomes a lot easier to expand it than getting the law on the books in the first place.

Small steps that we can achieve now are far better than the "perfect" law that has no chance of passage. That one-small-step-at-a-time approach is what worked well for the antis for the past 75 years. It worked well for various "civil rights" movements. And it can work well for us.

Get whatever improvement we can get now.
Hold onto that improvement like grim death.
From the position of the improved position start working on the next improvement.

"The mills of the Gods grind slowly, but exceedingly fine."

That's what people said about HR218, just get this passed and then it makes it easier to expand to all citizens, that hasn't worked out too well. Only LE can protect themselves in states such as CA and NY etc.

 

[drillsgt]

I have mixed feelings on this one as an employee and a student.

Like what??

 

[HICKMAN]

While I see your point, I have to disagree. My car is MY property too. If my employer disarms me in their building, fine, I can understand that even if I do not agree with it. If they do not allow me a gun in my car, they disarm me both to, and form, work as well. THIS affects MY rights more than it does theirs, because it affects me off of their property as well.

If they want to make a caveat to the Bill that says employers can insist on the gun being locked, either by trigger lock, or small gun safe, I could agree with that, but telling me I have to give up my rights on the way to work, at work, and on the way home?

amen brother

 

[dburkhead]

That's what people said about HR218, just get this passed and then it makes it easier to expand to all citizens, that hasn't worked out too well. Only LE can protect themselves in states such as CA and NY etc.

Battles are easier to win if you fight them. Doesn't mean you will always win, but the chances are a lot better if you don't wait for the "perfect" bill (which probably won't have the votes to get passed anyway).

 

[drillsgt]

Battles are easier to win if you fight them. Doesn't mean you will always win, but the chances are a lot better if you don't wait for the "perfect" bill (which probably won't have the votes to get passed anyway).

That's why I contacted Sen Nugent and my Senator about this provision, this bill is useless to me and a lot of other shooters I know that work on campus so I let them know. I'm not going to complain if it passes, it's not that big of a deal to me.

 

[Roadie]

Your employer isn't violating your rights during that 20 minute drive. They are not denying you from purchasing firearms, ammunition, issuing licenses and, most importantly, passing laws. They aren't infringing on a single right of yours until you step foot on their property. To say they are violating your rights would also infer that they have some authority over you while not at work/on the clock or during your travel between home or work.

Just a thought.

It may be just a thought, but it is dead wrong.

How, pray tell, do you propose I protect myself on the way to and from work, if I cannot have a handgun in my car AT work?

 

[level.eleven]

So does my gun magically vanish when I cross the threshold of their property and reappear when I leave?

I have a 25 minute drive to work not including the time spent dropping my daughter off at daycare and picking her up in the evening. Sometimes I have to make stops on the way. Barring any magical "make the gun vanish and reappear" capabilities, how exactly am I to exercise my RKBA during that approximately 3% of my lifetime?

And who do I, or my heirs, sue if I follow a no-guns company policy and get robbed on the way to or from work?

I don't know how to make a firearm vanish, but you would be famous if you could! Honestly though, the free market is full of bright minds that are capable of working out voluntary solutions. Heck, you could probably think of a few...didn't you design an airplane?

As fat as who to sue, I would sue the guy that robbed me. Seems like a dangerous web to weave to assign liability to a property owner for the damage occurred while traveling to his/her property - regardless of the policies put in place by the property owner.

This really just an exercise in how principled one wants to remain, and what means one wishes to use to achieve the same goal. We have the same goal by the way. I understand and respect all the discussion put forth in the thread.

Just as an aside, what if an employer wants to register people who decide to carry to work? What if they want some info on the firearm? Some employers may opt for metal detectors just make sure those firearms don't "accidentally" make it in. Hey, I just forgot to unholster!

 

[Roadie]

That's why I contacted Sen Nugent and my Senator about this provision, this bill is useless to me and a lot of other shooters I know that work on campus so I let them know. I'm not going to complain if it passes, it's not that big of a deal to me.

So you are going to oppose a bill, that is a step in the right direction for the rest of us, just because YOU work on campus?

Gee, thanks for the support brother.

 

[Roadie]

I don't know how to make a firearm vanish, but you would be famous if you could! Honestly though, the free market is full of bright minds that is capable of working out voluntary solutions. Heck, you could probably think of a few...didn't you design an airplane?

As fat as who to sue, I would sue the guy that robbed me. Seems like a dangerous web to weave to assign liability to a property owner for the damage occurred while traveling to his/her property - regardless of the policies put in place by the property owner.

This really just an exercise in how principled one wants to remain, and what means one wishes to use to achieve the same goal. We have the same goal by the way. I understand and respect all the discussion put forth in the thread.

That post made no sense.

the free market is full of bright minds that is capable of working out voluntary solutions.

Uhm, OK, mail the gun to work? Oh wait, have to go inside to pick it up.
Teleportation? Not Star Trek yet.

Sarcasm aside, there is no way possible to carry a weapon to and from work, without it being with you, or in your vehicle, while AT work.

This Bill would also not make it any easier for workplace violence to occur. Watch the News, how many of the "workplace killers" went HOME first, then came back?

To quote Joe Pesci: Your arguments, do not hold water.

 

[level.eleven]

That post made no sense.
Uhm, OK, mail the gun to work? Oh wait, have to go inside to pick it up.
Teleportation? Not Star Trek yet.

Sarcasm aside, there is no way possible to catty a weapon to and from work, without it being with you, or in your vehicle, while AT work.

This Bill would also not make it any easier for workplace voilence to occur. Watch the News, how many of the "workplace killers" went HOME first, then came back?

To quote Joe Pesci: Your arguments, do not hold water.

Two paths exist to solving the problem. The addition of more government, adding additional firearm legislation - this time that effects private property or, allowing voluntary interaction to occur with incentive from the free market. That's why I said its one of those "principled" litmus type situations. Nothing wrong with them. They can often lead to some great thinking scenarios.

 

[dburkhead]

I don't know how to make a firearm vanish, but you would be famous if you could! Honestly though, the free market is full of bright minds that are capable of working out voluntary solutions. Heck, you could probably think of a few...didn't you design an airplane?

More then one, actually (designed an ultralight as a training exercise with an aeronautical engineer looking over my shoulder to make sure I was doing it right) but breaking the laws of physics is a bit beyond me.

As fat as who to sue, I would sue the guy that robbed me. Seems like a dangerous web to weave to assign liability to a property owner for the damage occurred while traveling to his/her property - regardless of the policies put in place by the property owner.

Ah, so one can put policies in place that put others at risk and not be responsible for the results.

Well, whatever works for you.

This really just an exercise in how principled one wants to remain, and what means one wishes to use to achieve the same goal. We have the same goal by the way. I understand and respect all the discussion put forth in the thread.

We live in a society. In any society certain accommodations need to be reached. The old "your right to swing your arm..." bit and all that. This is simply another such accommodation.

Just as an aside, what if an employer wants to register people who decide to carry to work? What if they want some info on the firearm? Some employers may opt for metal detectors just make sure those firearms don't "accidentally" make it in. Hey, I just forgot to unholster!

If. If. If. If. If. As I told Indy 317--you can "prove" anything if you're allowed to make up your data.

 

[dburkhead]

So you are going to oppose a bill, that is a step in the right direction for the rest of us, just because YOU work on campus?

Gee, thanks for the support brother.

And some wonder why we've been losing for the last 75 years.