There has not been a single instance of intel acquired under duress of torture that has proven itself to be reliable, actionable, and truthful. In these circumstances men say whatever they must to get the interrogation stopped. If you are doing it for fun so be it... but don't try to pass it off as being for legitimate purposes.
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Palin: "If I were president, 'Waterboarding is how we'd baptize terrorists"
- Thread starter Kutnupe14
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There has not been a single instance of intel acquired under duress of torture that has proven itself to be reliable, actionable, and truthful. In these circumstances men say whatever they must to get the interrogation stopped. If you are doing it for fun so be it... but don't try to pass it off as being for legitimate purposes.
Incorrect. Kalik Sheik Mohammed was waterboarded, and it has been well documented and well publicized that his waterboarding DID, in fact, provide valuable information.
Disagree that waterboarding is 'torture'. In fact, it's probably less 'traumatic' then some of the hazing I've been through in my life time.
How do we know that wan't the context Sarah had in mind?
I think we might be on to something here. Maybe we can all agree to meet in the middle. First, we use the proven, effective, psychological (nonviolent) interrogation techniques until we've extracted all of the quality intel we can from those guys, then we can give them to the conservatives and let them have their fun.
Me? I'd rather live next door to either Sarah OR Hillary than "just fire a coupla shotgun blasts out the back door" 'Shotgun Joe' Biden!...For example, I'd rather live next door to her than Hillary Clinton.
halfmileharry
Grandmaster
Try petting a rabid dog and you're liable to get bit. "Proven"?? Anyone can write a comic book. Not one single method will work on every subject. Standardized anything is a joke considering the non standard human race.
Me? I'd rather live next door to either Sarah OR Hillary than "just fire a coupla shotgun blasts out the back door" 'Shotgun Joe' Biden!
(knock, knock, knock) Hey Joe my wife sent me over to see if we could borrow a cup of BLAAAAAAAMM!!!!
First of all I would never try to pet Ms. Palin.
Second, not that I'm an expert, but I've read some things that do more than suggest that more psychological, less violent techniques are more often effective. And don't knock standardization, torture has been the over-whelming standard for interrogation throughout most of history.
Third, Stan Lee might disagree with you about the comic book thing.
halfmileharry
Grandmaster
Yea, you're right. Quality of a comic book vs quality of torture are subject to interpretation.
Hmmm, everything the CIA did with him, for the most part, is classified. Well, except for the information that the CIA released that supports their torture...go figure. You do realize that waterboarding can be VERY lethal, you ARE suffocating while the water is being applied. Water won't go in the lungs but neither is air. Go a tad bit too long and you are dead.
That might be the truest thing any of us has said here today.
Brought to you by the same guys who brought you "We didn't record the interrogation, but we'll tell you what he said".
Waterboarding makes you feel like you're drowning, and CAN kill you, and you equate that to being less traumatic than a wedgie?
Well, since we have some folks here who don't believe that water boarding is torture, I propose an INGO get together. Let's get together and waterboard those folks who don't think it's torture. If, after 5 minutes or so they still think it's not torture then we should be willing to concede that point. Any volunteers?
First, IMO, terrorists aren't just Islamic. Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Ted Kaczynski. all terrorists. For the most part, though, I think we're discussing Islamic, Muslim terrorists.
Whatever little I know about interrogating terrorists has been relayed to me by a couple close friends that have worked in that field and done that job. So, that's what I base my own perspectives upon. Waterboarding is not torture, and works. Any 'Obama-spin' to the contrary notwithstanding. It worked on Khalik Sheik Mohammed, that's known, documented, verified.
That "if you waterboard or torture someone, they'll only tell you what you 'want' to hear", is absolute
and nothing but left-loony spin. They'll tell you want you want to KNOW, because they KNOW you're not letting them go until what they've stated has been verified. Duh.
Some might holding hands around the campfire, singing 'Cumbaya' may work on a few terrorists don't count on it. These are people that blow up buildings, use their own children to hide behind while shooting at us, shoot at us from their mosques and hospitals 'cause they KNOW we're too 'sissified' to shoot back so as 'not to offend them', and saw people's heads off.
Regardless of whichever side of the 'torture' debate you're on, or what methods we actually use, they're not going to hate you any more than they always have. They're not going to 'do even worse' than they're doing now. You're not a Muslim. They hate you.
Give ya the short 'course' on that one: If you're NOT Muslim, they want you dead, period. ALL must convert to Islam, or die. Go read it for yourself.
There is no negotiating. There is NO 'leave us alone and we'll leave you alone'. That 'ideal' makes you even more hated because you are 'weak and immoral', do not have conviction in your faith, are therefore a pathetic example of a 'child of god' and 'not worthy to live'. Atheists are even more 'despicable' because they're 'godless'.
It's a war. YOU might deny it, doesn't matter. THEY say it's a war. Against ALL non-Muslims. Might wanna 'bone up' on what a holy war is, 'cause you're in one.
Been that way for 15 centuries. And you are not changing it.
Whatever little I know about interrogating terrorists has been relayed to me by a couple close friends that have worked in that field and done that job. So, that's what I base my own perspectives upon. Waterboarding is not torture, and works. Any 'Obama-spin' to the contrary notwithstanding. It worked on Khalik Sheik Mohammed, that's known, documented, verified.
That "if you waterboard or torture someone, they'll only tell you what you 'want' to hear", is absolute
and nothing but left-loony spin. They'll tell you want you want to KNOW, because they KNOW you're not letting them go until what they've stated has been verified. Duh.Some might holding hands around the campfire, singing 'Cumbaya' may work on a few terrorists don't count on it. These are people that blow up buildings, use their own children to hide behind while shooting at us, shoot at us from their mosques and hospitals 'cause they KNOW we're too 'sissified' to shoot back so as 'not to offend them', and saw people's heads off.
Regardless of whichever side of the 'torture' debate you're on, or what methods we actually use, they're not going to hate you any more than they always have. They're not going to 'do even worse' than they're doing now. You're not a Muslim. They hate you.
Give ya the short 'course' on that one: If you're NOT Muslim, they want you dead, period. ALL must convert to Islam, or die. Go read it for yourself.
There is no negotiating. There is NO 'leave us alone and we'll leave you alone'. That 'ideal' makes you even more hated because you are 'weak and immoral', do not have conviction in your faith, are therefore a pathetic example of a 'child of god' and 'not worthy to live'. Atheists are even more 'despicable' because they're 'godless'.
It's a war. YOU might deny it, doesn't matter. THEY say it's a war. Against ALL non-Muslims. Might wanna 'bone up' on what a holy war is, 'cause you're in one.
Been that way for 15 centuries. And you are not changing it.
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Wrong. It's not all 'classified', and it's been thoroughly discussed on almost every media forum.
And yes, I know what it is, how it's conducted, and it's not torture, however someone spins it. And almost anything 'can' be lethal. Sound can be lethal, light can be lethal. LOL.
Well, that's simply a stupid 'argument', since I've not been accused of terrorism. So, I'm not sure what you're reason for wanting me to do so is, other than for your own weird fantasy, perhaps?
Didn't say it was 'pleasant'. Just said it's not torture, coming from those that know. Being in prison isn't torture, either, but I don't do things to subject myself to that, either. By your silly 'definition', anything someone finds 'unpleasant' or 'doesn't want to go through' would be considered 'torture'. Guess a lot of guys going shopping with their wives is, likewise, 'torture'!
Well, that's simply a stupid 'argument', since I've not been accused of terrorism. So, I'm not sure what you're reason for wanting me to do so is, other than for your own weird fantasy, perhaps?
Didn't say it was 'pleasant'. Just said it's not torture, coming from those that know. Being in prison isn't torture, either, but I don't do things to subject myself to that, either. By your silly 'definition', anything someone finds 'unpleasant' or 'doesn't want to go through' would be considered 'torture'. Guess a lot of guys going shopping with their wives is, likewise, 'torture'!
The US, up until the Bush years, considered water boarding to be torture and we hanged people for war crimes for doing it. Are you saying our forebears were just a bunch of pussies and didn't know torture from making someone uncomfortable? History disagrees with you. And so do most civilised people. Why not let INGO waterboard you and then you can tell us if it's torture.
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