Pack'em in there!

[throttletony]

on all o fmy range trips as a young (and probably overly-proud) glock owner in 2003-2006 I always loaded to full +1 for range trips. Never had a hickup (it was a glock 34)
I didn't carry back then, so I can't speak to that.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Lets analyze this issue as it pertains to handguns:

Step 1): Look down the empty magazine well from the bottom with the slide forward.

Step 2): Observe bottom of slide at the top of your magazine well.

Step 3): Ask yourself whether the factory magazine was designed to be loaded to maximum capacity and inserted in the magazine well. This answer should be "yes."

Step 4): Ask yourself how a round in the chamber puts any extra pressure on the magazine. This answer should be "it doesn't" since the fully loaded magazine is in contact with the bottom of the slide and not the round in the chamber.

Step 5): Realization. If the full magazine can't sit in the magazine well when there is also one round in the chamber (aka +1), then the full magazine can't sit in the magazine well WITHOUT a round in the chamber, since based on 1-4 above, the pressure on the magazine should be the same regardless. Reread step 3 if necessary.

Step 6): Action. File away above points to know you can carry +1 without damaging your gun if you want to.

Its not about damaging the GUN. Its about damaging the magazine SPRING. It is possible to cause the last round to not load properly in some guns if the spring becomes compressed and does not return to its full length or with as much pressure as designed.

While it was not a handgun, I have personally proven that at least temporarily you can overcompress a magazine spring to the point that it causes feed issues. In my case it resolved itself by letting it sit for a long time unloaded. (see my last post)

I would never have expected it, but I have shown it can happen in rare instances. I personally still load my mags fully.

 

[VERT]

Mags are considered to be wear items.

I have witnessed guns that have trouble with the +1. Overall pretty rare, especially among double stack service pistols.

Carry your shooter with full mag +1

 

[blueboxer]

Its not about damaging the GUN. Its about damaging the magazine SPRING. It is possible to cause the last round to not load properly in some guns if the spring becomes compressed and does not return to its full length or with as much pressure as designed.

While it was not a handgun, I have personally proven that at least temporarily you can overcompress a magazine spring to the point that it causes feed issues. In my case it resolved itself by letting it sit for a long time unloaded. (see my last post)

I would never have expected it, but I have shown it can happen in rare instances. I personally still load my mags fully.

Correct, damage to the magazine not gun. I was talking about the magazine and magazine wear, not sure why gun slipped out typing. To your point about overcompression, see below.

Mags are considered to be wear items.

I have witnessed guns that have trouble with the +1. Overall pretty rare, especially among double stack service pistols.

Carry your shooter with full mag +1

Exactly, magazines are wear items. Even if you have a 17 round magazine and always load 15, it will still wear out eventually. I think all of us have seen magazines wear out and cause trouble, but I haven't yet seen a gun have trouble with +1. And since magazines are designed to be loaded to capacity, that's exactly what I do. Round in the chamber or not in the chamber shouldn't make a difference as far as magazine wear goes.

 

[Thor]

^^^^

A good example of long term wear are the Ballester-Molina's I have. They came with original mags which do not work well due to probably having been loaded for about 4 decades. They work just fine with new one's.

 

[Dead Duck]

I wear Superman Underoos!

My problem is, I don't want to get them dirty or stretch them out by wearing them all the time. They're hard to get in my size.
So I only wear my Superman Underoos once a week and go commando the rest of the time. This way they should last much longer and when I really need them for those important occasions, they will be clean and all ready to go.

.....Now I miss wearing my Superman Underoos.
Maybe I should just go back to wearing them all the time. They're worth buying another pair when these get dirty and stained. Or I could buy a few pairs and alternate two of them during the week and have the newer third pair for those special days. Like when I meet a cute chick wearing her Wonder Woman Underoos.







You don't want to be caught with your pants down.
Load the magazines to they're full potential and if you still think you're wearing out the springs, then buy some more mags and alternate them out. For God sakes, underloading your mags seems counterproductive.

 

[Hardscrable]

Any mechanical items can/will eventually break/malfunction. The possibility of problems exists and cannot be 100% eliminated. Use quality gun and mags in good condition, use as designed, and carry on.

 

[Aaron1776]

Pistols are a bit different than rifle mags. I've learned the hard way NOT to fill rifle mags to capacity as it will cause nasty malfunctions. With pistols, I know a lot of guys, who shot a lot of guns made before 2000, refused to fill their mags all of the way up. I've personally had a few malfunctions with older designs filled to the brim, but I've never seen mags being damaged by them. I've also never seen a more recently designed pistol malfunction from being topped off. Although, both my old XD and XDM could be a PITA sometimes when fully loaded +1, so I often down loaded them for ease of use. Frankly 17 or 18 rds instead of 19 didn't concern me. As for the M&Ps, I've never seen an issue, nor have I felt the resistance of homing the mag that I did with the XDs. I honestly think that part is just better designed. Thus I fill to capacity, as I trust the design and it doesn't get in my way. With Glocks I've heard of people having issues, but never seen it...nor have I personally known someone who did.
Try it out with your gun. If your gun works fully loaded, use it fully loaded. If it doesn't work fully loaded, choose a newly designed handgun that does.

 

[IndyGlockMan]

I never carry +1. Just load to max and rack it.

 

[MikeDVB]

So long as the gun cycles properly with +1 you're fine. Springs do not lose their strength by being stretched once but by repeated stretch cycles. I.e. the more you load/unload a magazine the worse the spring will get [at a slow rate, they tend to last a long time as they're designed for it].

That said if you stretch a spring beyond it's design parameters it will fail - I imagine compressing it beyond it's design parameters could have similar effects but I also cannot imagine a magazine spring not being designed for +1 carry or as much compression as one can place on the magazine under real-world conditions.

+1 in everything I have all the time, nary an issue here.

 

[FireBirdDS]

After some recent tests at the range with any of my M&Ps, specifically the first shot or two of a fully loaded +1 gun and some top-off reload drills of a capacity filled back-up, my confidence is higher with fully packing out either of my 9s, though my 45 is still a bit in the stiff side, as those mags seem to need breaking in to an extent. The 10-8 M&P machined base plates IMO have a bit of an ergonomic (and endurance) edge over the factory base plates for not only having a more solid and smoother surface for slamming/tapping the mag, but also because the 10-8 base plate is squared off, thus eliminating the oversized front lip of the factory base plate that I've never cared much for, as it interferes with the proper positioning of my index finger during reloads. Also the 10-8 base plate finger grooves are good for encouraging proper indexing. The only downside is, at $20/ea with 5 mags, it's gonna be a slow upgrade indeed.



As was said, rifle mags are a different animal. Fully loaded AR 30-rd mags require considerably more force to properly seat slamming home during a closed bolt top-off (and slamming a steel mag hurts like a b***h). I'm understanding a little more why our troops are given the 28 rule.

 

[billt]

How many of you guys carry fully loaded mags with that +1 in the chamber?

Every weapon I carry that goes bang, is carried with as much ammunition as it can possibly hold, along with one in the chamber, ready to go. It's the same reason I keep my gas tank full at all times today. The world we live in is much too unstable to do otherwise.

 

[Who Dares Wins]

Does everyone unload their mags regularly so the mag springs get a good rest/break?? Do you even unload your magazines daily or weekly say, and switch out for spares??

I had a G22 that suddenly was having malfunctions at the range (at a GSSF match even) and I changed to a Wolff +10% spring and it fixed it. (This was on one individual magazine and when I tested the spring force on others, they were getting weaker than new, so I switched them all out for new springs)

I figured out that leaving it loaded for a few months on a shelf was creeping the spring and it was not feeding and/or jamming. Because of this I never go Max +1, but if you have tried it at the range and also your spare mag on your belt is this way and will go into the gun (without undue force) when the slide is closed, then I am OK with this.

We should all do what we are comfortable with and what we have trained with.

 

[churchmouse]

Mags are considered to be wear items.

I have witnessed guns that have trouble with the +1. Overall pretty rare, especially among double stack service pistols.

Carry your shooter with full mag +1

SOP for me.

 

[Mark 1911]

Full mag +1 always in the gun, plus 2 full mags in a carrier.

 

[output]

I also carry maximum capacity. I haven't noticed any problems with any of my pistols. Springs wear out slowly over time from being cycled. Most people will never wear a magazine spring out in their lifetime. I would be more concerned with making sure there is no pocket lint in my spare magazine or carry gun. Enough lint in the wrong place(s) will cause a problem. I never really hear people talking about it...carry long enough and you will know exactly what I am talking about.

I make it a habit to wipe-down and lightly oil my carry gun at least once a week. But I carry all day everyday even at work. Every once and a while I will also check and clean my spare magazine that rides in a Milt Sparks magazine carrier. You would be surprised what you find in there. I often carry a spare in a front pocket without a mag holder and that one really collects lint. This of course is my $0.02

 

[MikeDVB]

I've never tried +1 on an AR... Just sounds like asking for trouble to me.

I mean if you have a 30 round magazine already you probably won't miss the +1. If you're limited to 7 or 10 then I could see the argument perhaps if it were reliable.

The main reason I +1 on my pistols is due to the severely limited capacity without a magazine that extends far beyond the end of the gun.

 

[Fordtough25]

Pistol mags are loaded to capacity, AR mags 28. Leaving them loaded doesn't weaken the spring but unloading and loading does. I will agree that slamming a full mag into a firearm in battery is tough sometimes.