Owning Gun =/= You a Cop

[LegatoRedrivers]

When carrying a sidearm, my responsibility is to defend myself or other innocent people should there be no other choice in the matter. Not to defend property that isn't mine, not to intimidate the elderly, and not to try to look like a bad@ss for fun and prizes.

 

[LPMan59]

neh, the homeowners are from Zaire. Having a gun pointed at them should be nothing unusual.*



*flavor with purple as needed (lolz)

 

[LEaSH]

Would've been pretty funny if the law abiding folks were carrying and had good training and situational awareness.

 

[actaeon277]

Or they had armed friends around the corner.

 

[nfranke]

i think coming up with guns drawn was there only mistake they bypassed any chance to find out what was going on, especially on an older couple

 

[Boost Lee]

The really crappy and unfortunate part of this WHOLE situation is that the father and son did NOT have bad intentions.

I think their adrenaline kicked into Hollywood high gear as they marched over with their AR-15's and pointed them at the Kuljiliowhateverthename's is.

Not to throw in a "well if it was me" scenario... But if they'd have kept it as simple as having a firearm on them and kept the pistol out of holster and DOWN,
Things wouldn't been so bad for them. Buuut, you live you learn.

 

[Kutnupe14]

i think coming up with guns drawn was there only mistake they bypassed any chance to find out what was going on, especially on an older couple

That's what I was thinking. These people were old, and looked old. Did he think he was dealing with Clint Eastwood ala Gran Torino?

 

[Kutnupe14]

The really crappy and unfortunate part of this WHOLE situation is that the father and son did NOT have bad intentions.

I think their adrenaline kicked into Hollywood high gear as they marched over with their AR-15's and pointed them at the Kuljiliowhateverthename's is.

Not to throw in a "well if it was me" scenario... But if they'd have kept it as simple as having a firearm on them and kept the pistol out of holster and DOWN,
Things wouldn't been so bad for them. Buuut, you live you learn.

They were just stupid (officers don't get a pass either). Stupid hurts (and should) sometimes.

I hope their lives aren't ruined

 

[JettaKnight]

Let's see.
Protecting someone's life. No.
Stopping a violent felony. No.
Protecting their house or curtelige (sp?). No.

So how did they do nothing wrong?

While I fully agree, It seems like the LEO sided with the vigilantes so far as to verbally commend them. Until they found out they were wrong.

What I didn't read was how a phone call was placed to 911 right away when the "prowlers" were spotted.

 

[45fan]

Pretty big over reaction on the part of the father/son SWAT team. Even bigger fail on the LEOs part for not looking at the situation a little deeper and diffusing things without arrest. The couple bringing in the high dollar attorney would, in my opinion, only balance the overreaction of the other party to bring things back to balanced.
If they had simply investigated the noises in a reasonable manner, the chances are that the law enforcement involvement would have never happened.
Pointing guns at an unarmed, elderly couple seems a bit past being a complete moron. The frightening part of this story is that he has already reproduced.

 

[JettaKnight]

Would've been pretty funny if the law abiding folks were carrying and had good training and situational awareness.

Not sure why the would be funny. Maybe you're being sarcastic. Maybe you meant tragic?

What would have happened? You're changing the locks on the house you just bought and out of the corner of your eye you see Cleetus and Cooter sneaking up on you with long rifles.

What happens next? Both parties would be acting with a self defense motive.

This is why you shouldn't go looking for trouble as these guys did. There's no way for anyone to tell who's in the right.

What if you're walking down the street and you see Cleetus and Cooter sneaking up on an elderly couple at their front door. What do you do? Try to get the drop on C&C and protect the home owner?


We argue that we have as much right to be armed as an LEO, but, at least with a uniformed LEO, you can quickly assume that the guy in the uniform is in the right.*

Here's a situation where someone right, wrong, sort of right, meant to do right...

People need to quit thinking that having a gun gives them the power and duty to be a hero. It doesn't a gun is another tool you possess to defend yourself or others. Without a badge (or cape and tights), quit trying to be a crimefighter. We want people to be armed, but we need to be prepared for a greater percentage of the public to be armed - and poorly trained.


* PLEASE, don't try to argue about rogue LEOs!!

 

[Somemedic]

Doofus assed guys like these 2 will get "safety training" classes added to the hoops you have to jump through to get your ITCH pulling stunts like that.

Good intentions, I think we all agree on but better ways of implementing them.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Good intentions

Yes, but they pave the road to Hell.

We get many threads on INGO about "when can I show my gun?" "When can I point guns at people that I don't like" et al.

Answer: never. If you do, be prepared to pay for it and you better be in the right beyond any reasonable doubt.

 

[cosermann]

I don't share Evan Marshall's "stopping power" theory, but this is a relevant post on the "Dangers of Intervention."

Apply liberally. Rinse. Repeat.

Commentary by Evan Marshall

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Let me be perfectly frank. Those who think that intervention will bring fame, honors, glory, etc., are delusional. I once prevented the rape of a woman by butt stroking her attacker with a shotgun while he was in the act of penetrating her. Weeks later she made an excessive force complaint against me. She thought I should have been more restrained in my behavior!

Yup, that's we give the coppers qualified immunity.

For INGO youngsters, Evan Marshall was a Detroit coppper who had plenty of opportunity to intrevene.

 

[cst]

Great response

From what I read the Canole's did not know the neighbors or that the house had been purchased. It said the "Thursday night" so I am assuming it was after sunset that the new owners parents went to change the locks. The Canole's heard the commotion, grabbed their guns and went to check it out, found two people they thought were trying to break into the house and held them there until police arrived. I do not see that they did anything wrong. Maybe some of you do not realize but forclosed homes are prime picking for thieves these days. I would think that although they may not appreciate what happened and how it happened they would at least appreciate that they have neighbors who are willing to look out for them. Sounds like something a handshake and cookout could fix real easy. If anybody is at fault it should be the police for arresting the parents and not trying to verify their story.

Perfect--- cool,calm logical thinking